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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
calling all beat experts (is this a contest?)
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windchill



Joined: Jan 07, 2005
Posts: 90
Location: london uk
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:37 am    Post subject: calling all beat experts (is this a contest?) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've been using the G2 (and the NM before that) for a number of years now. In fact I generally use nothing else - preferring to construct each 'track' entirely in the G2. In many ways I guess I consider myself something of an expert patcher - but when it comes to 'beats' I just don't seem to be able to get results that really satisfy me. No matter how much I try I never seem to be able to come up with the effect I'm looking for. I'm obviously referring to the actual sounds here rather than the rhythms. One of the problems is certainly the lack of an audio table module on the G2 (what a shame!) because a bit of audio mangling certainly helps - but I feel that it should be possible to get good results just from synthesis. Too often my efforts sound like a thinner version of an old famous drum machine (some people might like that - but I want to move beyond). My 'snare' sounds (I use the term loosely!) in particular always seem to be poor. When I try to simulate more digital effects - perhaps by bursting chaotic FM into short envelopes it still doesn't sound quite right. What am I looking for? It's that Autechre type thingy - mangled techno beats, glitchy, evolving, icy, so weird it makes your head-spin -yet still undeniably a 'beat'. I realise I am talking loosely here but I think a lot of you will know what I mean. I recently started outputting midi from the G2 into Reaktor to get around this problem. but it feels unsatisfying - I still think it is my fault that I can't get the sounds out of the G2. Anyone on this forum want to show me how good the G2 can sound in this dept - or point me towards the odd patch or two? Or am I not alone in having problems here?
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windchill



Joined: Jan 07, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 4:17 am    Post subject: I should contribute Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is one I hacked together (some time ago now) which I do rather like. I attach it here in it's NM classic form. It still sound's better on the NM than on the G2. Maybe Kassen has a point after all about the NM versus G2 sound.


Autmachine.pch
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windchill



Joined: Jan 07, 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:57 am    Post subject: A g2 version Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

A rough and ready G2 version of the above patch


autmachineROUGH.pch2
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mother misty



Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 681
Location: Ghent / Belgium
Audio files: 82
G2 patch files: 130

PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:17 am    Post subject: Re: calling all beat experts (is this a contest?) Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

windchill wrote:
I've been using the G2 (and the NM before that) for a number of years now. In fact I generally use nothing else - preferring to construct each 'track' entirely in the G2. In many ways I guess I consider myself something of an expert patcher - but when it comes to 'beats' I just don't seem to be able to get results that really satisfy me. No matter how much I try I never seem to be able to come up with the effect I'm looking for. I'm obviously referring to the actual sounds here rather than the rhythms. One of the problems is certainly the lack of an audio table module on the G2 (what a shame!) because a bit of audio mangling certainly helps - but I feel that it should be possible to get good results just from synthesis. Too often my efforts sound like a thinner version of an old famous drum machine (some people might like that - but I want to move beyond). My 'snare' sounds (I use the term loosely!) in particular always seem to be poor. When I try to simulate more digital effects - perhaps by bursting chaotic FM into short envelopes it still doesn't sound quite right. What am I looking for? It's that Autechre type thingy - mangled techno beats, glitchy, evolving, icy, so weird it makes your head-spin -yet still undeniably a 'beat'. I realise I am talking loosely here but I think a lot of you will know what I mean. I recently started outputting midi from the G2 into Reaktor to get around this problem. but it feels unsatisfying - I still think it is my fault that I can't get the sounds out of the G2. Anyone on this forum want to show me how good the G2 can sound in this dept - or point me towards the odd patch or two? Or am I not alone in having problems here?


Absolutely,
When it comes to ae-kind of sounds, it’s not really the sound that counts, it’s what you do with them!
I’ve heard lots of ae-stuff were the individual sounds aren’t really that special but the sequences/structure and modulations make them special!
(check their max stuff for example) The individual sounds are pretty shitty, but the whole sequence just sounds absolutely amazing!
I think a G2 is perfect capable of doing these kind of sounds,
in fact I think the G2 is the ultimate glitch-synth.
(would be even better if we could get some grain modules!)

windchill wrote:
Anyone on this forum want to show me how good the G2 can sound in this dept - or point me towards the odd patch or two? Or am I not alone in having problems here?


Here are some short MP3 clips of some stuff I’ve been working on lately,
is this the kind of stuff you are looking for?

Maybe you can check some of ivity's performances aswell, he's made some very nice glitchy stuff


GLTCH-1.mp3
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GLTCH-2.mp3
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windchill



Joined: Jan 07, 2005
Posts: 90
Location: london uk
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:45 am    Post subject: That's what I wanted! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The second of those mp3s is fantastic - full of great little sounds. You've made me feel pretty stupid - which is just what I needed - something to kick me out of my jaded frame of mind - It's all G2? Is there any processing power left in the performance to add drones etc on top - or is most of it used up doing the beats and glitches? I guess the contents are a trade-secret? Very Happy
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mother misty



Joined: May 13, 2004
Posts: 681
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:58 am    Post subject: Re: That's what I wanted! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

windchill wrote:
The second of those mp3s is fantastic - full of great little sounds. You've made me feel pretty stupid - which is just what I needed - something to kick me out of my jaded frame of mind - It's all G2? Is there any processing power left in the performance to add drones etc on top - or is most of it used up doing the beats and glitches? I guess the contents are a trade-secret? Very Happy


thanks, this is all G2 with no external processing.
Both mp3's are made from the same performance based around this patch
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-14086.html

The other slots are a glitch delay i'm working on (will share it soon in the building block section) a resonator patch
http://electro-music.com/forum/post-82210.html#82210 (works great on drums!)
and a patch from petr serkin (bargvill i think)

still plenty of power left to add some drones and stuff
(if you have the expansion Smile )
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windchill



Joined: Jan 07, 2005
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Location: london uk
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 9:13 am    Post subject:
Subject description: I've not been paying attention
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Wow ... Ivity's stuff is amazing. I've obviously not been coming to electro-music often enough lately!
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eposk



Joined: Apr 29, 2005
Posts: 155
Location: Portland, OR
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

oh my god it Autmachine!!!! I love this patch for the NM1. sounds JUST like it. awesome.
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Afro88



Joined: Jun 20, 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's not Autechre-ish, but the biggest drum sounds I've managed to get out of the G2 are in this patch: http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-10034.html

Maybe with some glitchy delay fx and quasi random triggering you could turn this into some kind of big sounding Autechre drum machine. Question
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slave to this



Joined: Oct 23, 2005
Posts: 93
Location: nyc
G2 patch files: 7

PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: I should contribute Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

windchill wrote:
Maybe Kassen has a point after all about the NM versus G2 sound.

i won't open up this can of worms again, its all subjective based on what sound the listener is after, but at percussive punchiness, the g2 doesn't have it where the NM1 does.


anyhow...i agree with MM, Ae does amazing things with their structures, not necessarilly their sounds. Their max patches are basically just these algo programmed beat generators that use a lot of small, basic concepts. It really blew me away when i realized that all they were doing for this one patch, which plays a nice always randomly changing, but still somewhat the same song, was triggering a couple of short, percussive fm (1 carrier, 1 modulator) sounds in interesting ways. let me stress INTERESTING. i doubt for some of their stuff they are even composing, rather just programming the hell out of things.

Not to mention...all those two had on their last tour was a monomachine and a machinedrum, and it blew me away what they were doing with those 2 pieces of gear. wicked shit!

James
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davep



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2006 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't do a lot of this type of thing, so take this with a grain of salt, but I have a few ideas for spicing up a beat patch. Basically, distortion. The obvious types like the overdrive and saturate modules, plus the shapers and rectifiers. Also, try patching an audio signal into BOTH inputs of a simple multiplier (VCA) module and mix the output with the clean signal. Some of the more interesting ways to distort the signal would be things like the Digitizer for bit reduction and the wavewrapper. Try rolling off the HFs before sending a signal to the Wavewrapper if the results are too hissy. And don't forget the ring modulator. And the Frequency Shifter.

The trick is to just add some spice without totally trashing the signal (unless you want to trash the signal, nothing wrong with that).

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sheridan



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi there.

You can find a whole host and variety of drum sounds in this post: http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-7037.html

Personally, I have progressed somewhat from some of these sounds - maybe I'll get round to improving and posting these patches one day (little things like putting the amp envelope BEFORE the filters to eradicate uneven env clicks, or using saw waveforms on the kick 'tops' for more 'smack', etc.)

Either way, I generally use them as starting points for my drum sounds and that saves a lot of time.

Have fun. Very Happy

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mother misty



Joined: May 13, 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: I should contribute Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

slave to this wrote:

Not to mention...all those two had on their last tour was a monomachine and a machinedrum, and it blew me away what they were doing with those 2 pieces of gear. wicked shit!
James


It was based around these 2 pieces of gear, but they also had a G2 Smile
But you're right, it was pretty impressive!
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dasz



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi all,

It would be right if I didn't post anything on this thread. Sequencing and integrating the sound sources with the sequence is the way I use the G2 for the most part (apparent in the factory soundset). I now have 200+ grooves that I've assembled over the years.

I am trying to do more noodle and ambient stuff to offset the heavy grooves I've been producing for the last year or so.

Here is a recent one.
Twisted Evil http://electro-music.com/forum/post-96332.html#96332 Twisted Evil

Now don't we all wish we had patterns in those sequencers? and the ability to exclude modules from variations? Smile
/Dasz

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slave to this



Joined: Oct 23, 2005
Posts: 93
Location: nyc
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: I should contribute Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mother misty wrote:
slave to this wrote:

Not to mention...all those two had on their last tour was a monomachine and a machinedrum, and it blew me away what they were doing with those 2 pieces of gear. wicked shit!
James


It was based around these 2 pieces of gear, but they also had a G2 Smile
But you're right, it was pretty impressive!



probably the most menacing stuff i've heard by them by far! if they could have replaced 'untilted' with the live set i heard in boston, i would have been much happier with it.

btw, do you have any idea what the role of the g2 was for them? maybe a 4 slot dedicated MD/MM controller? or perhaps was it up there doing its own thing?

James
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slave to this



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

very 303ish, dasz. sounds nice. any external fx?

james
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dasz



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wasn't going for the 303 effect, it just turned out that way. it is a mix of oscsync & shaping prior to the filter.

no external effects. no samples. the usual clavia philosophy Smile
/Dasz

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mother misty



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:48 am    Post subject: Re: I should contribute Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

slave to this wrote:
btw, do you have any idea what the role of the g2 was for them? maybe a 4 slot dedicated MD/MM controller? or perhaps was it up there doing its own thing?

James


I've been wondering that myself...
Certainly when you know that the G2 was an engine and not a keyboard
and they didn't have a laptop (or it must be hidden somewhere really good Smile )
I'm pretty sure this was a 100% hardware live act with alot of improvisation
because I've heard several recordings from their last world tour and they all
sounded very different, the one from glassgow is fantastic, check it if you can.
I know they've used the G2 for perc/hihats (and probably some other stuff)
on Untilted, but I don't know if they have used the G2 for these purposes live,
seems hard to do without a laptop or the interface.

Here's the pic, the red thing in the rack is a G2 engine


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slave to this



Joined: Oct 23, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

this setup looks much more beefed up than the one i saw in boston, (wish i would have had my camera). anyhow...it looks like Sean is the one on the MD and MM....think Rob has his own under that rack? I also heard they had an MPC-1000

james
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intoxicat



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Now don't we all wish we had patterns in those sequencers?


yes we do, we do indeed
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Stanley Pain



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

autechre saying that they use their Nord for Hi Hats is probably a little misleading...
they said that about the nord lead in an interview years ago for soundonsound magazine.

i like to use just my Nord live. it's less of a headache than carting around loads of gear to hook up. i occasionally take my laptop and then maybe another synth of choice, like a 727 or a Juno or something.

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mother misty



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Stanley Pain wrote:
autechre saying that they use their Nord for Hi Hats is probably a little misleading...
they said that about the nord lead in an interview years ago for soundonsound magazine.


Why is it misleading? You can clearly hear the sound of the metallic noise osc on Untilted.
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intoxicat



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i think ae is probably not th ekind of people sticking to one piece of gear all the time. I suspect the gear is very much part of the working process so one day it could be a g2 another a machine drum a third max/msp

anyway here is my ae-like attempt based on slave to this's comment about simple pm patches:


ae fun.pch2
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slave to this



Joined: Oct 23, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

intoxicat,

i think you're right about ae. i used to think they were all max/msp, even though i still think some of their middle age'd stuff like confield was basically all max, but they definitely use a wide range of gear so it seems. i really think they just spend a LOT of time building generative systems that have sets of rules, per say, on all of their equipment...they press record, hit play, tweak live, and wa-la...instant awww-teckk-errrrrr.

awesome patch, btw. i love strange acting sequencers.
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slave to this



Joined: Oct 23, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mother Misty's machinedrum sequencer plus patch mutator stored into a performance is great Ae fun as well, (i adapted the other 2 slots for my monomachine with the same methods Very Happy).
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