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Buchla Matrix Mixer Clone
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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:31 pm    Post subject:  Buchla Matrix Mixer Clone Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

In preparation for an upcoming surround sound gig, I built an 8x8 matrix mixer, using the Buchla 205 schematic as my guide. It was a fairly easy build - most of the wiring I did directly on the pots, creating a column style buss with them. That's really all a matrix mixer is - rows & columns, like an excel spreadsheet or an HTML table. You have your 8 inputs, that you can bring up at different volumes on each of the 8 outputs. In my first audio test, I simply connected 8 oscillators, using different waveforms and each running at a different frequency. Fading the inputs in and out on one of the output columns reminded me of wavetable synthesis, but very manual. I think you can do some incredible sound collage with a tool like this.

I'll try to record a few samples later on. I'll post the press & peel pcb layout, once I make some corrections.

Cheers all,

Romeo

Last edited by vtl5c3 on Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Peake



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Did you use the 5556/741s specified?

Matrix mixers are indeed fun, and overlooked for their capabilities. The Moog 984 is a touch snazzier with tone controls, IIRC.
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ericcoleridge



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Buchla Matrix Mixer Clone - Frickin' Awesome! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

vtl5c3 wrote:

I'll try to record a few samples later on. I'll post the press & peel pcb layout, once I make some corrections.
Romeo


Looking forward to this. Would you post a picture or two also?
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Clack



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

interesting,

thought i'd just put this in fpr comparason - CGS does a matrix mixer too http://www.cgs.synth.net/modules/cgs33_matrix_mixer_euro.html

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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Peake,

No, I used sockets thinking I'd start with LF353s and if they didn't sound good, I'd try OP275s. So far the 353s are doing a great job, so I doubt I'll bother trying anything else for now.

Eric, I will post some photos over the weekend.

Mr. Clack, Very true about the CGS matrix mixer. I have one of those too, but I'm dedicating it for CV mixing. Keeping it close to my sequencers. The plan is to use it to create sequence variations, transpositions, etc... for polyphonic playing.

The reason I built the 205 is that I already had two assembled DIY boards. It's really a simple circuit, basically 6 dual opamps, a few caps and resistors, the rest is done with a buttload of panel wiring.

I'll get the PCB layout, some photos and samples uploaded in the next few days. Got to recover from the work week a bit first.

Cheers,

Romeo
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Peake



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The original uses single opamps. Were the crosstalk/isolation specs that much worse back then? OP275s will likely sound a bit different than Buchla's original design Laughing
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This sounds like a fun module to build. (except for the wiring! Rolling Eyes Laughing )
What value are the pots? I've got heap of pots building up from stripped mixers etc. and want to find a use for them.

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fluxmonkey



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
This sounds like a fun module to build. (except for the wiring! Rolling Eyes Laughing )


ken stone recently release a redesign that uses PCB-mounted pots and jacks, simplifies the wiring quite a bit.

b

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, but, that then ties you down to a specific size and type of pot and socket. Which probably means going out and buying them. Crying or Very sad
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Yes, but, that then ties you


You can always use wire if you wish so ...

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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:46 pm    Post subject:  Photos Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a few pix: Front, back w/ pcb, back, and w/out pcb. PCB layout and samples will follow.


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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Laughing that's a nice bunch of wires for sure!
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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

As promised, here's some audio. The first track is 8 static vcos crossfaded into one output channel. Not too exciting, but gives you the general idea. The second track is 8 vcos, this time sequenced with superseque and milton, crossfaded into 8 outputs.


8x8_mix_test1.mp3
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8 vcos, static pitch, crossfading between to change tonal palette.

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8x8_stereo_out_sequenceMix.mp3
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8 vcos sequenced with superseque and milton. Crossfading between 8 inputs and 2 outputs

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jnuaury



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

feedback is where matrix mixers really get exciting

with a 3x3 mixer you could have two of the outputs go to filters/effects and back into two inputs and then throw a sound into the leftover input and listen to it from the leftover output...

now you can adjust the signal flow to have the effects go from series to parallel, with or without self-oscillate etc


now most of you know that.... but rerouting signals and crosspatching via knobs can get me worked up you know Wink
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Did you say you were going to post a schematic for this?
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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Unkle Krunkus!

No, I didn't say I would post it. I'd assumed that it was on the net already, but as it turns out... it ain't. Here it is.

R.


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a.b.o.z.



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

would there be a sound difference between this one and doepfer one (scehmatic on doepfer diy page) http://www.doepfer.de/DIY/a100_diy.htm

Ivan

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neandrewthal



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I must have one of these! Imagine how amazing it would be in conjunction with the CGS sequential switch. The thought of sequencing through 8 different mixes of control or audio signals vith varying degrees of feedback blows my mind Shocked
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm still trying to work out what it does and how it does it! Confused Rolling Eyes
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fluxmonkey



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

very cool. gotta say i'm having a hard time imagining needing 8x8 (thinking "that's more than $50 just for the knobs")... i have one of ken's 5x5s, and i don't think i've ever maxed it out... anyway, thanks for sharing, and the schemo!

b

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ericcoleridge



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'd like to build one of these. I'm not sure if I'd build all 8 channels, but I would definitely use the PCB layout if it gets posted. Thanks for putting this stuff up.
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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK, and here's the PCB layout. As you can see it's nothing fancy, just 6 dual opamps configured as summing opamps. The Buchla 205 had 4 opamps for one side (left), 4 for the other (right), and another 4 for both channels (L&R). There was also an opamp for the monitor outputs, but I left that off.


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vtl5c3



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Krunkus!

The Buchla 205 has two sections that are both 5 input mixers where any of the 5 inputs can be sent to any of 4 outputs. In addition to the 4 outputs, there's an extra 4 outputs that are mixes of both sections.

For the live gig, I will be feeding 8 vcas into each of the matrix inputs and directing them to 6 monitors in the performance space. I will use the 2 additional outputs as effect sends. That's where I'll probably get some wacky feedback going!

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
I'm still trying to work out what it does and how it does it! Confused Rolling Eyes
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So how have you adapted that to an 8*8?
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gogmagog



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

a.b.o.z. wrote:
would there be a sound difference between this one and doepfer one (scehmatic on doepfer diy page) http://www.doepfer.de/DIY/a100_diy.htm

Ivan


Concerning the Matrix Mixer schematic on Doepfer's site:

"For each of the outputs the two OpAmp circuit with the corresponding output socket is required."

Could anyone explain to me why they have two opamps buffering each output? Why couldn't they have had just one opamp per output and doubled the feedback resistor value?
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