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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Nord Lead and Nord Wave synths
Nord Lead 1 pitch issue
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ianr



Joined: Aug 05, 2008
Posts: 7
Location: London

PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:54 am    Post subject: Nord Lead 1 pitch issue Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Guys, hope someone can help me out!

I'm using a Nord Lead 1 with Logic 8. In a song I'm currently working on I'm using a sound from the Nord which is basically one long note that I'm pitching up the longer it plays, until it's at the highest point it will pitch to (it's used as a build up until I bring the main part of the track back in)

My problem is that towards the end of the note when it's pitching up in the highest octaves, I can hear it 'stepping' in increments rather than a smooth glide which is what I'm after.

Is there a way to resolve this does anyone know, or is it something inherent in the Nord?

Thanks
Ian
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How do you pitch it up? using MIDI note commands or MIDI pitch bend or some internal mechanism maybe with an envelope generator ...
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ianr



Joined: Aug 05, 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Jan, I drew the midi pitch bend information into Logics Hyper Draw, as I found trying to bend the pitch up live over the 40 seconds or so that the note plays for was impossible!!
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can't find if Clavia uses the full pitch bend resolution or not ... there is not even an NL 1 manual on-line I think, but the NL 2 manual says nothing about it.

For a bend over 4 octaves up for 48 semitones there would be 8191 / 48 -> 171 steps per semitone, and this should not be audible I'd think ... however not always the full pitch bend resolution is implemented and when four bits would be dropped there would be about 11 steps per semitone left - you'd hear it zip then on higher frequencies. And I've seen synths using only 10 of the 14 available bend bits.

When the note is really high there could also be some artifacts due to aliasing that are causing the problem.

Drowning the sweep in reverb might help Shocked

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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Indeed a smooth rising pitch isn't that easy using the PitchStick.

A work around could be only using Osc2, controlled by the ModEnv in a very low speed. OscMix set completely clockwise; ModEnv set to Osc2 and the Attack as far as you want it to last. The 'end' pitch can be set by the Amount.

If you are in need of a fatter sound then just one Oscillator, use Unison and the Mono mode and even more, use a Layer and detune the second Slot.

You can also disable the Osc2 KeyBoard tracking and tune Osc2 in the starting pitch and set ModEnv Amount to the ending pitch. The keys just act as a gate.

Wout
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ianr



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the help guys. I don't think it's aliasing as it's not in that high an octave, but will try swamping it in reverb and see how that sounds.

I'll also give your solution a go Wout, thanks for that. Although being new to hardware synths I only have half an idea of what you're talking about! Embarassed

Best way to learn is to do though I guess!

Thanks again
Ian
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What's going on in the configuration I suggest?

The Modulation Envelope can be routed to Osc2. If a rather large Attack is set, the pitch of Osc2 will rise slowly. If there's no Release the pitch will drop immediately! So this has to be set too. The ending pitch has to be set by the Amount (see remark later).

When Osc2 has no KeyBoardTracking it will have a sustained pitch which can be set by the SemiTone knob. This pitch will be the starting pitch.

When the OscMix is set completely clockwise only Osc2 will be heard at the Output. This is also important when you want to hear only the RingModulator output if you will use this feature. Counter clockwise is important when using FM and only Osc1 (which is FM'ed by Osc2) will be at the output.

If you use a Midi sequencer I suggest to let the pitch rise al little bit above the desired pitch and cut it down at the right moment.

The trouble is there's just one oscillator and that sound would be a little 'thin' I guess... There are some things you can do about that. First use the Unison in a 'medium' setting, e.g. 5. If you use a Pulse wave form apply some Puls Width Modulation using LFO1. When set to Mono mode the sound will use 4 voices Unison instead of 2. And if you think it's still not enough, use the same Program also in another Slot and detune this using the FineTune knob, so there will be some beating in the sound. Also another OctaveShift is possible and even a chord using 3 Slots and tuned by the SemiTone knob...

And, of course, use some reverb Wink

Wout

Last edited by Wout Blommers on Wed Sep 17, 2008 3:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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ianr



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

wow, thanks for the tutorial Wout! I will try it as soon as I get home tonight Very Happy
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oops...

Find a much better way to do this: not by using the ModEnv Attack but the ModEnv Release in the reversed position! (anti-clockwise Smile

In the example I mixed Osc1 also in, so the starting 'chord' will be sustained. Almost every sound is posible.

Wout


2606GlidingUp01.syx
 Description:
sysex of the Program used

Download
 Filename:  2606GlidingUp01.syx
 Filesize:  139 Bytes
 Downloaded:  79 Time(s)


2606.mp3
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 Filename:  2606.mp3
 Filesize:  280.13 KB
 Downloaded:  285 Time(s)

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ianr



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

that example is exactly the sort of thing I want to achieve, thanks Wout. I didn't have a chance to try your tips out last night, but that sounds so much better than my current pitch bend will definitely have a crack at it tonight.

I noticed you've posted the sysex file too. Now being a TOTAL dunce when it comes to Sysex (despite a lot of reading up about how to use it), can you explain in simple terms how i can use that? Do I just drag it into logic and play the file, which will then take the info it needs from the Nord to achieve this effect?

THanks for all your help, this forum really is the most helpful one I've been on about anything music related. Laughing

Ian
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I use myself
http://nm-archives.electro-music.com/020_NordLead2/023_Miscellaneous/NordGenerator_Editor/
because one can see the knobs Smile It has some bugs, though...

Every librairian can send Midi Sysex, I believe, so do most soft sequencers. Just import the file into the right place (mostly Midi channel).

Wout
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ianr wrote:
... Do I just drag it into logic and play the file, which will then take the info it needs from the Nord to achieve this effect? ...
As I showed you above you'll need a tool, maybe Logic, I don't know this program, which is able to send the sysex to the synth, which in his turn will place the info into its buffer memory, so it isn't saved yet. I use the above mentioned tool, NordGen, but there is also SendSysex and MidiOx and some more I don't know about.

I drag the file into NordGen and push Send (or Return on my computer keyboard) and if I connected the Midi cables right all works well Smile

Wout
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