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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
I propose a challenge!
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Psyingo



Joined: Jun 11, 2009
Posts: 247
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 4:21 pm    Post subject: I propose a challenge! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

So, I was browsing one of my favorite electronics web-stores when i noticed something... a CMOS IC assortment.

So this is my challenge, very simple:

Purchase one of these:
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G921

Build a lunetta out of the chips that arrive, and only those chips! Of course you can use passive components, resistors, capacitors, diodes and so on... but use only those chips. I got one and haven't been bothered to do anything with them yet, so I thought it would be a nice challenge and motivation to try this.

What do you guys say? maybe we can make it a deadlined thing and have everyone post their creations?

edit:
I decided to write out a list of what I received, here it is:

4x 4073 = Triple 3-in AND
3x 4029 = 4-bit up/down binary/decade counter
1x 4018 = Divide-by-N
6x 4023 = Triple 3-in NAND
3x 4027 = Dual J-K Master-Slaver Flip Flop
4x 4015 = Dual 4-bit Shift register
2x 4011 = Quad 2-in NAND
1x 4052 = Dual 4 channel analog multiplexer
1x 4093 = Quad NAND Schmitt trigger

pretty decent assortment, and something could definitely be made with it.

edit: I am in no way affiliated with Electronic Goldmine. I just thought it would be a great idea Very Happy.
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tjookum



Joined: May 25, 2010
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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nice idea, although I know the goldmine won't ship to the netherlands so Im out.

That is a very nice selection though and it won't be much of a challenge to make a very cool lunetta out of that.

maybe with 1 or 2 IC's it would be a little more challenging.

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Draal



Joined: May 18, 2010
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice selection of ics for a decent lunetta. I have a number of them in mine Very Happy .
The 4093 will give ya 4 oscillators,
The 4052 is great for switching
The shift registers will get you in lunetta land real easy and provide sources for the AND/NAND gating
And of course the 4018 will love its JAM inputs filled with this logic for cool rhythmic variation.

Not a bad set up for 5 bucks and a decent starter kit that differs from the typical suggested chips.

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Psyingo



Joined: Jun 11, 2009
Posts: 247
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tjookum, I am willing to reship to the Netherlands. That goes for anyone else they won't ship to. I'll get a big order to save on shipping. We can work out logistics if I get enough interest.

Draal, Yeah, it's a good assortment, and will differ from person to person.. which makes it an interesting affair. Someone might get a 40106 or 4046, while someone may get some 4066's or something and be forced to think creatively about their designs. Granted those are some pretty easy chips to work with.

what do you say Draal? you want in on this fun? design a unit with only the chips received!
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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll be in on this. I have an idea on what I'll do already... regardless of the IC's I randomly get! Not sure what the sonic result might be, but it will look alright. Laughing

I guess some kind of rules or guidelines need to be discussed. Like, what extra things can you use?

Depending on the response from others maybe it can become an annual event with a trophy of some sort... maybe a CMOS chip glued to a block of wood sprayed gold Laughing

I might need to take you up on the shipping offer as where I am the minimum order is $50... although those missile guidance gyroscopes they sell look tempting Twisted Evil
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Draal



Joined: May 18, 2010
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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmmm, I have been pondering a more portable unit... I may be able to sneak into the "lab" when my 9 month old is asleep. This is a challenge indeed!

Heck, for 5 bucks, count me in Smile .

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Psyingo



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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'd like to get some more people in on this, it's a fun idea.
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Captain Biscuits



Joined: Jun 11, 2010
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Psyingo,

If you're willing to do an order and ship to us Europeans I'd be quite keen to give it a go on the proviso that I'm an absolute beginner with no-where near enough time to spare so might take a while to make anything and then it might be less than inspiring.

But then if you don't have a go you don't learn do you so I'm up for it.

What sort of time scale did you have in mind to run this thing over?

Cheers

Ian
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inlifeindeath



Joined: Apr 02, 2010
Posts: 315
Location: Albuquerque, NM

PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'm in! this will be great!
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droffset



Joined: Feb 02, 2009
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll do something!
I might have a lot of these already, will look at my stock. Otherwise I might take you up on the resend offer.

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Check out the FREE Intro to Lunettas Document
https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZIwOP-PR9sSZDlidzgzbV8wY3RjenJqanY&hl=en

Edit: Spelling mistakes.
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Psyingo



Joined: Jun 11, 2009
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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

droffset wrote:
I'll do something!
I might have a lot of these already, will look at my stock. Otherwise I might take you up on the resend offer.


the selection is random, thats just what i got. thats what makes it so interesting, what i get is different from what you may get.
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tjookum



Joined: May 25, 2010
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Im very interested in joining the fun but since Im already swimming in cmos IC's, can I just take a random selection from those?


Maybe we need some guidelines? I mean a random contest is going to be a little hard to judge/compete in.

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Psyingo



Joined: Jun 11, 2009
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tjookum wrote:
Im very interested in joining the fun but since Im already swimming in cmos IC's, can I just take a random selection from those?


Maybe we need some guidelines? I mean a random contest is going to be a little hard to judge/compete in.


No, just grabbing random ICs from your stock pile is not ok. I mean, sure you can do that but it won't qualify for this. The point is that you will receive ICs that you would otherwise perhaps never buy and be forced to do something with them.

I am also swimming in CMOS. I could take 25 'random' ICs from my collection but they are all going to be ICs that I have already worked with and thought about. Its not a surprise. Oh, I got some 4011's, some 40106, 4029, 4046, 4051, 4066... WHAT EVER WILL I DO WITH THESE?

I don't see anything hard with the current guidelines:
receive 25 random ICs, build something using only those ICs and passive components.

we may need some further rules, but i think the position its in currently is neither hard to judge or compete in.
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Draal



Joined: May 18, 2010
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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Going with this kit method is guideline number one. Smile

I think how many of the chips we use can be figured out per builder. Some of us may find creative ways to get a lot of bang out a few of them while others may need to use more based on the kit. Truly a game of cards here.

I'll probably go with nuts and bolts for connections to work with what I have. I forgot, are op amps an optional add on?

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Psyingo



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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Draal wrote:
Going with this kit method is guideline number one. Smile

I think how many of the chips we use can be figured out per builder. Some of us may find creative ways to get a lot of bang out a few of them while others may need to use more based on the kit. Truly a game of cards here.


yep, that's the idea. I don't think there should be any hard guidelines for number of chips. it'd be ridiculous to say ALL 25!!! but making something out of 1 chip is perfectly fine, or if you can make something out of all 25, go for it. that, like you said, would be totally up to the builder.

Draal wrote:
I forgot, are op amps an optional add on?


I will say no, op-amps are not allowed. Simply adding op-amps can completely change the range of possibilities, since op-amps are so general purpose you could make almost anything using them and the chips received. When the challenge is over you can obviously be free to do whatever you want to your creation, if that includes adding op-amp stages anywhere. I think adding op-amps also creates an unfair advantage. I've noticed a lot of beginners don't understand op-amps. So to keep it fairly simple, only CMOS. However, you can do whatever you want with those CMOS chips Very Happy


We will have to work out a Start date/End date for this. It should be long enough that everyone involved will have plenty of time to create something, but not so long that people run out of steam and forget. I know people have stuff to do other than tinkering around with CMOS so we will need to get input from everyone who will be involved. I would still like to see more participation before we kick this off. I for one would love to see RFEng on board. Inventor... RichardC64?!
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Draal



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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Psyingo wrote:


I will say no, op-amps are not allowed. Simply adding op-amps can completely change the range of possibilities, since op-amps are so general purpose you could make almost anything using them and the chips received. When the challenge is over you can obviously be free to do whatever you want to your creation, if that includes adding op-amp stages anywhere. I think adding op-amps also creates an unfair advantage. I've noticed a lot of beginners don't understand op-amps. So to keep it fairly simple, only CMOS. However, you can do whatever you want with those CMOS chips Very Happy


Agreed. This cmos only method streamlines the process and makes it less intimidating for the lurkers out there who may join in. This concept is really at the heart of what Mosc has alluded to in the early days of the lunetta thread.

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droffset



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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok they will ship to New Zealand so I'll look through for other good deals on the site before ordering, there's a $10 minimum.

When the dates and parameters are decided on we should blog and/or do videos about it.

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Check out the FREE Intro to Lunettas Document
https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZIwOP-PR9sSZDlidzgzbV8wY3RjenJqanY&hl=en

Edit: Spelling mistakes.
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droffset



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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wow, it is a $50 minimum. It said $10 elsewhere on the site. Can't do that much.
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==================
Check out the FREE Intro to Lunettas Document
https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AZIwOP-PR9sSZDlidzgzbV8wY3RjenJqanY&hl=en

Edit: Spelling mistakes.
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darkomen



Joined: Jun 21, 2010
Posts: 40
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds like fun, I just got one of these assortments a few weeks ago. Maybe for one of the requirements we would have to use at least one of each chip in the assortment to make the noise maker. Also, it might be nice for the person to write a little summary of what each component is doing, this would encourage learning as well as teaching (nothing too crazy, just a little blurb on each part).
Then the device can be judged on originality of the circuitry and the sounds it produces, etc... (obviously this would need to be done by people who are not in the contest).
For those who can't buy the assortment at a reasonable price because they are not in the US or they already have a lot of chips around, they can choose from what other people have received.

Here's what I got in my assortment:
2x 4001 - 2 input NOR
2x 4011 - 2 input NAND
2x 4013 - Dual D Flip-Flop
3x 4018 - Divide-by-N Counter
4x 4023 - 3 input NAND
1x 4024 - 7-bit (÷128) ripple counter
5x 4042 - Quad Clocked D Latch
4x 4073 - 3 input AND
2x 4075 - 3 input Or
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Captain Biscuits



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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Droffset, Psyingo did offer to mail out to people who couldn't get delivery so I'm guessing he'd be happy to help antipodeans out along with us europeans.
Congrats on the 555 result by the way - that was a cracking entry Smile
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tjookum



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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quite a nice selection darkomen, Im already seeing possibilities there.

I was going to let this one pass by, but Im affraid I will just have to join. Count me in for 1 assortment psyingo. Also a good excuse to delve a little deeper in the cmos noisemaker world, I still have the feeling there are lots of cool sounds waiting to be discovered.

As far as rules, here is my 2 cents:
-the contest should be divided into category's: creativity, looks, sound and use of IC's? This way every entry gets a fair chance since Im sure people will come up with very different devices. So 10 points for every category, and the one who gets closest to 40 wins. And we could also announce winners for every category.
-The creative use of digital logic should be the main objective, I don't think it matters if you use 2 or 15 IC's.
-And I totally agree on keeping seperate blog style pages on our progress to help out others.


Rolling Eyes ...there goes my summer.

/edit:
And about using passive's and/or op-amps, I think it should be allowed and just taken into account for the judging(especially for sound). Sometimes a r2r with an op-amp is just what you need and if it leads to more creative uses of cmos IC's Im all for it. And if you're lucky enough to have a 4069UB/4049 in your assortment you could theoretically use them as "op-amps" so it would be unfair to others.

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mosc
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can't participate in this, but I think it's a nifty challenge. Contests, per se, are kinda the antithesis of the electro-music.com ethic though. This project was proposed as a challenge, and I think it should be just that.

It may get some new builders involved. It will possibly inspire some people too. It will show off a lot of the creativity that is abundant here. And, it will make some really crazy music.

So, go ahead and have a deadline as you suggest. Please, no winners and losers. The quality and originality of the work should be reward in itself, and working on something like this with others throughout the electro-music world will make it loads of fun. And, those of us that aren't building will greatly enjoy watching as these things evolve.

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Captain Biscuits



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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes - I like challenge (as in the challenge of just getting stuff to work)

There's no way I'm going to compete with you guys - that would just be silly!

Getting something built would be cool though.

Having said that I don't have any problem with someone winning. It may seem an odd perspective but I think you can have winners without having losers.

Having a go should be fun. Seeing what other people have created should be fun & seeing someone judged to have been outstandingly creative should be fun too.

Just my thee hapence worth!
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mosc
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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have given thought to some kind of electro-music.com award of merit. Could be given to anyone for any reason. Don't know what the prize would be, except to get the recognition for accomplishment.
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inlifeindeath



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PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'm with mosc. i don't see any reason to make it a competition, i just like the idea of everyone trying to make something unique and awesome!
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