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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
Other Uses for 40106
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Cynosure
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:00 pm    Post subject: Other Uses for 40106
Subject description: Filters, LFO and more
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I was asked to post some examples of other uses for 40106's. I have a few. Attached are some of them. The LFO one I understand, but I have no idea how the others work. Also, I can't guarantee that they won't ruin the chip, but they seemed to work well when had them on breadboard.

Also, I found it sounds really interesting to sound 2 or more sound sources into a schmidt trigger input and take the output as a new sound. Lots of rhythm and oddity.

Please share any other innovative uses that you have come up with.


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Cynosure
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is a sample.

I start off clean so you know how the source sounds.

Then I pass it through two filters:

1. A regular schmidt trigger to create the rhythmic pulsing.

2. My 40106 distortion effect in the schematic i posted to create the feedback/distortion sound.


Also - I was working on a stereo widener using a 40106 and 4066. It works, but i get a clicking sound leaking through. I've posted about it in another thread - can't figure that one out, but it still sounds cool even with the clicking.


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Kabzoer



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think your distortion circuit works like Frequency Modulation.
You build an oscillator so the frequency depends on the supply voltage, wich is the sound source.
I'll try to breadboard your circuits today.
The cd4066 gate as well, I'll see if i can find something to remove the clicking!
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Cynosure
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Kaboozer - Now I have a better understanding of what I created.

I did some searching on the 4066 issue, and found that it is just how the ic works. I'm looking now for better options to do the switching. Any suggestions?

More about the 4066 thing here:

http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-49715.html
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Sonic



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Fantastic. Thanks for posting, Cyno. I'll definitely be experimenting with these.
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Cynosure
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is the stereo imaging filter I have been playing around with. It works for creating the widening effect, but there is also a lot of clicking from the 4066 switching. Then the clicks start to create their own tone when you speed up the rate into audio range. The oscillation is a cool effect if done intentionally, but I really want to find a way to get rid of it.

1. Schmidt trigger oscillator creates a pulse.
2. Split the pulse and send one of them through a Schmidt trigger. This inverts it, so it is the opposite of the original pulse.
3. Send the split from the original pulse and the inverted one each to a 4066 control pin (add led's to each if you want). Since one clock source will be high as the other is low, the switches will alternate between which one is open and closed.
4. Split a sound source and send each split to one of the 4066 inputs.
5. Take your right out from the output of one of the 4066, and your left from the other.
6. Mix with the original sound source (I did this by using by mixer's aux send to go to the circuit and mixing some of the aux return with the master output in the mixer).


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Cynosure
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I solved the clicking problem by using transistors instead of the 4066. I will post the schematic once i get some to to make it.
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Cynosure
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is a sample of the panning. The clicking is still there, but it is a very quiet low thud now instead. I don't think anyone expects perfection from CMOS circtuis anyway (at least I don't).

Also, the recording is very noisy because I only have 741 opamps to boost the sound. I'll pick up some NE5532's this weekend, and that should sound a lot better.

I'll post the schematic soon.

In the sample I start off with the original sound and then add the panning. Then near the end I adjust the rate while playing the bassline.


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Cynosure
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is the schematic. The left side seemed to have a stronger pulse for some reason, so I used a large cap to ground near the transistor, and I added a 2k resistor to ground.

I'm going to keep this one on breadboard for as long as I can spare the breadboard, so let me know if you try it and run into any trouble. Sometimes the slightest change in a cap or resistor value either stopped the entire circuit or shut off one side.


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jean bender



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi everybody !
I'm sorry, but i don't really understand the way your cd40106 works when you power it by other digital or audio information, as in the first left drawing put by Cynosure in its first post.

How goes the logical information out as it is send to the +vss pin ? I've already seen this design in other parts of this forum, people say that it is made as an oscillator, but... Would be happy to get more information about it.
Also, would it work with a cd4093 ??

thanks

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Cynosure
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

deadbeat wrote:
I'm sorry, but i don't really understand the way your cd40106 works when you power it by other digital or audio information

I really don't understand it either, but Kabzoer said that it uses frequency modulation. Here is my uneducated attempt to understand it:

The 40106 usually sends the Vdd out as a high output. Usually, that is just a power supply, so it is the power that is sent out. If the Vdd is replaced with audio, then the high state sends out the audio instead.

The circuit I showed has a schmidt trigger oscillator on pins 1 and 2. The oscillator automatically changes the output state of the chip from high to low over and over again, and the rate can be varied by the potentiometer.

Since the power has been replaced with an audio signal, you end up sending out little bits of the original sound at a very high frequency. The frequency is high enough that instead of hearing it go on and off, you hear the pulsing start to oscillate itself and interact with the source sound, creating the frequency modulated distortion.

Or I could be entirely wrong, but I'm sure someone here will correct my mistakes...
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jean bender



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks for your explanation !! that makes sense to me !
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corex



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That sounds more like amplitude modulation than frequency modulation, doesn't it?

It's like running an audio signal (a square wave) to a VCA's CV in.
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Kabzoer



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

corex wrote:
That sounds more like amplitude modulation than frequency modulation, doesn't it?

It's like running an audio signal (a square wave) to a VCA's CV in.


I think it's both, you're right about the Amplitude modulation,
but if you have a lower voltage at the output, the cap will 'fill' slower which also results in a lower frequency.
So if you put less voltage on the power pin, not only the amplitude will drop, also the frequency.
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squarewhite



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hi

which transistor did you use to kill the clicking of the 4066?

best
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Cynosure
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I didn't use the 4066 at all. I used 2N3904 transistors to do the switching instead. The transistor seems to be able to do it slower, and doesn't cause the click.

However, it required lowering the level of the sound a lot and then boosting it up again with an opamp. This makes it ok as a stereo effect with the source sound mixed in the center, but you wouldn't want to run the sound on its own.

There are some schematics floating around for simple crossfading VCA's that do a similar effect and don't have any clicking because they turn down the volume quickly instead of just cutting it off. It might be worth a look if you are up to a slightly more complex build, but it is outside the world of CMOS.
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Did you try putting filter capacitors accross the supply to the 4066? That may reduce clickyness.
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Cynosure
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JingleJoe wrote:
Did you try putting filter capacitors accross the supply to the 4066? That may reduce clickyness.


If you mean from Vdd to Vss, then yes. I tried that. It helps, but shutting the sound off abruptly will create a click no matter what is doing the switching. I think that the transistor doesn't switch as abruptly.
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