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Are ALPS pots supposed to be good quality?
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 8:32 pm    Post subject: Are ALPS pots supposed to be good quality? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've finally tracked down a chronic problem with a Behringer guitar amp. It's a dual gang PCB mount ALPS pot which is scratchy as hell on one trace and intermittently disconnecting on the other. Even if I can get it out, I don't know if I can get the same one to replace it. It has a long shaft, and all 6 connections down one side. About 12mm across. Any suggestions? Could I dismantle it and fix it? I've done it before, but not with an ALPS. It looks very compact, so pulling it apart might make it even less reliable. Confused
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fonik



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

they manufacture a wide range of components with different quality:

does it look like this? (medium quality, >2EUR)
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

or like this? (high end, >10EUR)
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

or like this one? (cheap, <1EUR)
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

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Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
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bugbrand



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:46 am    Post subject: Re: Are ALPS pots supposed to be good quality? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
I've finally tracked down a chronic problem with a Behringer guitar amp. .....


....I won't get into views of Behringer though I'm sure a few people will say this answers itself!

I've seen the medium-quality ones Mathias mentions pop apart (in a 303 clone) and didn't think it'd be so easy to mend -> or, maybe fix it in the short run, but I figured that it'd only be a matter of time before it happened again.
(I ended up not fixing the thing)

I saw this sort of thing at Farnell (but didn't look through all they offer)
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
(not a long shaft though)

I'm sure I've heard that Behringer have a spares department, no? Or maybe they just expect people to buy a new one a year down the line!


***
And while we're talking about Alps pots....
I've used their standard 16mm 'commercial' pots for ages (from Rapid) and they've seemed, to me, to be very good - decent price (and an ideal size), but reliable.

(actually, I'd really like to find an easy source for ones with short shafts - I have to hacksaw off a lot of shafts because I can only get the slightly longer ones - Futurlec is the only place I've found that has short shaft ones for a decent price, but I'm wary of getting a large order from them due to import taxes..)

So, anyone else have any comments on the 16mm ones?

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etaoin



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:28 am    Post subject: Re: Are ALPS pots supposed to be good quality? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Futurlec is the only place I've found that has short shaft ones for a decent price, but I'm wary of getting a large order from them due to import taxes..)


I think you mean Alpha. Futurlec doesn't sell Alps (I think).

I usually split up Futurlec orders that I think will get to large (and hence noticed by the tax man). The additional $4 shipping is better than any duties and I only have to order a few to make it cheaper than anything I can get in the EU.

My local favourite has a decent stock of short (round) shaft Alpha in log, lin and even reverse log, but they are far more expensive. Banzai in Germany sell a huge number of Alpha pots, also in 12mm and 24mm as well as PCB-mount.

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's not a 90deg one, and doesn't match any of the pictures you posted Mathias. Tom, I found the same type at Farnell, but it's got a longer shaft, and only 6 terminals.
I'm thinking about doing a bit of home surgery! Twisted Evil

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bugbrand



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:01 am    Post subject: Re: Are ALPS pots supposed to be good quality? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Etaoin wrote:

I think you mean Alpha. Futurlec doesn't sell Alps (I think).

I usually split up Futurlec orders that I think will get to large (and hence noticed by the tax man). The additional $4 shipping is better than any duties and I only have to order a few to make it cheaper than anything I can get in the EU.


Yes, silly me!

Good point on splitting up orders... sounds like a plan!

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prophei



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i recently bought a lot of alps pots that look like the mediums listed above, and find them to be fantastic. the travel is silky smooth, and i haven't had any fall apart at all.
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bugbrand



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

prophei wrote:
i recently bought a lot of alps pots that look like the mediums listed above, and find them to be fantastic. the travel is silky smooth, and i haven't had any fall apart at all.


Was that an Ebay bulk purchase mentioned here on the forum?
I was looking at those today - very tempting!

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Man, this job is a big number 2! Shocked
The pot has two tabs hanging off the sides which solder down for mechanical strength. Getting it off there is gonna be a bitch! I have to remove all the solder from those two tabs, and the 6 terminals, and the whole area is littered with SMD resistors! Mad This is all just to get access to the pot which I most likely won't be able to fix.

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prophei



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bugbrand wrote:
prophei wrote:
i recently bought a lot of alps pots that look like the mediums listed above, and find them to be fantastic. the travel is silky smooth, and i haven't had any fall apart at all.


Was that an Ebay bulk purchase mentioned here on the forum?
I was looking at those today - very tempting!


yep =]
i posted about it cause it looked like such a good deal. pots are so damn expensive, and i am in love with sealed pots like those as we use them in the products we build at the company i work for. i used to de-solder them from our junk pile... no more!! Very Happy

an added bonus with that auction is that they come with nice hexnut hardware, so they are ready to panel mount AND look good!
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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Has anyone else been buying / using the Alpha pots from Small Bear Electronics?
I've been impressed enough with the $ when you buy 25 or more and have ordered a few piles of them.
I've been so busy building for the last few months though, I haven't yet had time to sit and actually play my synth....... so I don't know yet, their quality level.

With all of this discussion - it'd be cool if I could get feedback from anyone else with experience before I buy any more huge quantities. Shocked

Thanks for any possible bits of info. on this. Smile
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Broadwave



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I use the "commercial" 16mm, splined shaft Alpha pots (Futurlec, not SmallBear) - very nice smooth response.

Out of my last batch of 150 (100k Lin) 8 proved to be faulty - bad joint from the solder tag to the track, the rivit seemed a bit loose.

Of course you don't find that out until you've mounted up the pot, wired it up, powered up, listened to your VCO's frequency jumping all over the place, screamed and sworn like a trooper, calmed down enough for a nice cup of tea and a 10 minute break - I guess you know how the rest of it goes Mad

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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

AndyR1960 wrote:
I use the "commercial" 16mm, splined shaft Alpha pots (Futurlec, not SmallBear) - very nice smooth response.

Out of my last batch of 150 (100k Lin) 8 proved to be faulty - bad joint from the solder tag to the track, the rivit seemed a bit loose.

Of course you don't find that out until you've mounted up the pot, wired it up, powered up, listened to your VCO's frequency jumping all over the place, screamed and sworn like a trooper, calmed down enough for a nice cup of tea and a 10 minute break - I guess you know how the rest of it goes Mad


Still DO appreciate that note, though! Smile Bin there ... Shocked though, with 'offshore' brand of pots, that I no longer use. (Mode Electronics - decent, cheap $ pots, but don't have the cheap access any more, that I used to.)
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TheAncientOne



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dear Uncle K

A suggestion: I have to do this every few months on a repair of some kind. ON approach is to take a fine grinding disc in your trusty Dremel and cut through the mounting pillars before desoldering the rest.

Somtimes you can snip them off and sometimes the pot can be broken up in situ, and the pins removed one art a time. I work on the theory that the pot is expendable, (usually), the board isn't .

With some modern boards i can be a real challenge to remove things like this without wrecking the board. Another non-favourite is the surface moutn power regulator chips that use a big slab of PCB copper for a heatsink. I have an antique tinsmiths electric soldering iron I use to get enough heat into the package tab.

A friend of mine had to replace a BGA package on a batch of boards at his work. Now that IS nasty.... even if you have the oven to put them back on.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Alps pots:
my TC D-Two has also alps pots(looks like the cheap/small ones. btw. you get them with and without 90° angle )
TC is nown for good quality.( exept my own D-Two Wink )



Alpha pots:
@Etaoin
in germany you get them cheaper from www.musikding.de then from Banzai ( good personal service there.)
btw.
if one is asking, you get them also as print version, and as Stereo pots
Small bear or also rapidonline in the UK has them one more time cheaper (much cheaper ! )

@Rykhaard
Dotcom uses the 24 mm alphas,
and have a look to the the Klees from Scott Stiites and State Machine Wink.
What i see is, that most People use the Alphas ( 16mm and 24mm ) and the spectrols.
So you are right with these
I use 16mm alphas too.
I have used aprox. 80. On one module i have a fault which could be caused by a broken pot
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for the tip Prof,
I would love to just snip it out and break it up, but I don't know where I could get a replacement at this stage, so I'll have to keep looking.

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well even I cannot believe what I just did.
I successfully, desoldered the tiny, dual trace, pot from the PCB. (popping the terminals off the body in the process) Dismantled the main body to gain access to the traces and wipers. Cleaned the traces, tweaked the wipers. Re-assembled the body. Re-attached the terminal block. Cleaned up the PCB, and re-soldered the "better than new" pot onto the board. Tested the amp, and, although it's still a little scratchy when you're changing the master volume, it's fully functional, and effectively "brought back from the dead"! Shocked Cool Laughing
When inspecting the traces, I noticed that part of one of them had no wiper marks at all. This means it was probably quite dodgy before it even left the factory. Quite likely, because of this, only half the amp ever actually worked.
As this is not the kind of thing which is undertaken very often, I took some photos for you to all see what I'm talking about. They will follow shortly.
Some journeys take you to places you would never normally want to go.
Getting back from there leaves you feeling very good about yourself. Very Happy

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Rykhaard



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:

@Rykhaard
Dotcom uses the 24 mm alphas,
and have a look to the the Klees from Scott Stiites and State Machine Wink.
What i see is, that most People use the Alphas ( 16mm and 24mm ) and the spectrols.
So you are right with these
I use 16mm alphas too.
I have used aprox. 80. On one module i have a fault which could be caused by a broken pot


Great enough news to me! I'll continue purchasing them in at least 25 pc. quantities from Small Bear then. Smile To save more money, I'll prolly just bump up to purchasing 100 at a time.
Thanks for the news. Smile Small Bear have wonderful speed in shipping. Very happy with them. Smile

Now - if I could just find as cheap a source for slide switches, for my coming drum sequencers. (Major sigh)
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Randaleem



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Well even I cannot believe what I just did. I successfully... Some journeys take you to places you would never normally want to go. Getting back from there leaves you feeling very good about yourself. Very Happy


Glad to hear of your success! Nice work, Uncle Krunkus!

Kind regards, Randal
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etaoin



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:

in germany you get them cheaper from www.musikding.de then from Banzai ( good personal service there.)


Are you sure? Banzai ask 1.29 euro for a 16mm full shaft lin or log Alpha. Musikding ask 1.30. Doesn't seem to be much difference between the two.

I've ordered from both in the past (not pots but other stuff) and found Banzai to be the better packer and shipper to NL.

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jhaible



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Funky40 wrote:

TC is nown for good quality.( exept my own D-Two Wink )


My D-Two has problems as well.
It's an awesome device, great user interface and all.
But the display of mine died *twice*.

JH.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: Are ALPS pots supposed to be good quality? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bugbrand wrote:
I saw this sort of thing at Farnell (but didn't look through all they offer)
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.
(not a long shaft though)


These ones are actually quite good.
They also come in a 4-pin version for single pots (the picture shows the dual pot version).
I've used lots of them, and didn't have a single failure yet.
They are available with longer shafts - I think RS Components have the longer shaft version. I think they are also less expensive at RS.
Too bad that both only have a very limited range of values left.
They used to have a large variety, including some reverse log pots. Not anymore.

JH.

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Funky40



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sorry for more Alpha OT Wink



Etaoin wrote:
Quote:

in germany you get them cheaper from www.musikding.de then from Banzai ( good personal service there.)


Are you sure? Banzai ask 1.29 euro for a 16mm full shaft lin or log Alpha. Musikding ask 1.30. Doesn't seem to be much difference between the two.

I've ordered from both in the past (not pots but other stuff) and found Banzai to be the better packer and shipper to NL.

i got them down to 0.80€ , but we've taken several hundrets
Actual i payed 0.85€. thats the normal price when taking 100 i think. ( quantity was 100 in total )
http://www.musikding.de/product_info.php?cPath=50_54&products_id=184
btw.: he is counting different values togehter and makes discounts for that total amount. ( maybe check it first by Mail )
btw.2:
after insisting objection he counts now the German taxes directly off Smile .
Earlier he did not, and then just after faxing the custom documents

btw.3:
i got today the Print 16mm alphas.
they have unfortunatly a very long shaft. Really to long ( it's a 6mm rippled shaft. )

but as sayed: rapidonline in uk is much (!) cheaper one more time
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've been using the split shaft Alpha pots for about a year now and have found them to be reliable and pleasurable to use (because of their small size). Futurlec is real cheap when buying a pile of pots at a time. I always order in batches of 25 (á $0.45) or 100 (á $0.40) so I get the pots duty free Smile Really helps to keep the costs down.
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etaoin



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
after insisting objection he counts now the German taxes directly off Smile .
Earlier he did not, and then just after faxing the custom documents


Yes, that's your luck in Switserland, he can sell tax free to you. But he can't to me...

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