General question about VA synths and MIDI

ilmolto

Hi and thanks for reading,

I'll make this nice and short. Is there anything that can be replaced in a VA synth due to sloppy MIDI playback?

Daniel

seraph · Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 2:15 am Post subject:

a faster computer, maybe Question

DrJustice · Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 5:47 am Post subject:

Or different software...

Todays computers (hardware) are several orders of magnitude faster than what is needed for consistent MIDI playback.

Which VA synth and what sequencer setup are you using?

DJ
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Antimon · Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 6:09 am Post subject:

Is there a consistent time lag between playing a MIDI note and hearing the sound? Then it's probably a sound latency issue - tweak the buffer size and other thing in your VA program, or get a better sound interface with lower latency.

/Stefan

klangumsetzer · Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 6:43 am Post subject:

hi,

are you talking about vsti's or hardware va synths?

if you mean hardware: which midi interface/drivers/OS are you using with what synth?

if you mean vsti's use an asio driver (or asio4all) and adjust the buffer size to 512 samples or lower, if possible. also any vst insert/send effects will increasy latency.

hope this helps, best regards

eike
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DrJustice · Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 6:49 am Post subject:

Ahh, yes... It's not clear whether it's a a soft synth running on the same computer as the sequencer or and external synth connected by MIDI cables - we need to know. Talking about replacing things in the VA synth made me assume that it's an external one. If that is the case you can't usually modify the MIDI performance of the synth. Most standalone synths have pretty consistent MIDI timing, though, and so I would have suspected the sequencer and/or MIDI driver.

DJ
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Antimon · Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:11 am Post subject:

Sorry, didn't see "VA" in there. I assumed that it was about softsynths because of the problem. Embarassed

/Stefan

ilmolto · Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:20 pm Post subject:

Hey guys,

Appreciate all the feedback. Yes, I'm talking about a hardware synth. Roland JP-8000. I am 99.9% certain that my setup isn't the problem, as I have 3 other synths that work just fine on the same setup. I've tried various things to diagnose the problem, like using different MIDI cables, connecting the JP-8000 directly to a MIDI controller instead of going to a MIDI interface on a computer. All end up the same. JP-8000 struggles with MIDI playback. If you want to know my setup...

Power Mac Dual 2 GHz PowerPC running Mac OS X Tiger 10.4.11 with 9 GB of 533 DDR2 SDRAM
MOTU 828mk2 audio interface (have the latest drivers)
MOTU MIDI Express 128 MIDI interface (have the latest drivers)
Cubase 4.5.2

What I want to do now, is try and replace something inside the JP-8000 that might make a difference. This is basically all I wanted to know. Is there anything that you know of that might help? Maybe replace the MIDI In socket on the back of the JP-8000? Anybody here own a JP-8000?

Regards,

Daniel

DrJustice · Posted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:44 pm Post subject:

Is the JP-8000 loosing notes or getting stuck notes? In that case I'd suspect the MIDI socket or something else inside it. If it's the timing that is sloppy then I don't know - haven't heard of any particular problems with the JP-8000.

DJ
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ilmolto · Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 1:37 am Post subject:

It's hard to explain exactly what happens. I've uploaded a couple of short mp3s so you can hear for yourself.

Listen to the audio without MIDI first. What I'm doing, is slowly tweaking the cutoff and resonance knobs on the JP-8000 panel, but not at the same time. As you can hear, no problem at all. I've kept the sound nice and short so it's easier for you to hear what I'm talking about.

Now listen to the one with MIDI. Exact same thing, except the JP-8000 is now receiving these knob changes from Cubase, and not directly from the panel on the JP-8000. Hear how the notes are sloppy? This only happens when control change data is sent to the JP-8000, except for CC 1 (Modulation).

Am I insane or do you think the JP-8000 is not functioning properly too?

Without MIDI being sent.mp3

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Without MIDI being sent.mp3

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With MIDI being sent.mp3

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1.04 MB

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688 Time(s)

soundwave106 · Posted: Sat May 09, 2009 2:58 pm Post subject:

Most of the time, when I hear something like that, I would seriously suspect software issues first.

However, if it's *only* the JP-8000 that has this issue, I would think that indeed it's something with the JP-8000 -- at least *how* it is interacting with your setup.

MIDI is a pretty easy protocol to overload, depending on your computer configurations and the amount of data you are trying to send.

One unique thing I Googled about the JP-8000 is that it uses something called "Active Sensing" -- actually unique for an instrument built as late as it was. This will send out a message saying "I'm here!" every 1/3rd of a second or so. You can Google the theory (supposedly it helps prevent hung notes).

In practice, I can easily theorize -- with a combination of active sensing, clock signals (if the JP is transmitting this), CCs, and notes -- that MIDI or MIDI controller bandwidth may overload. Thus maybe this explains what is happening here.

The only way to really know this for sure is to monitor the MIDI notes. If you are experiencing overloading, it's going to happen on the *recording* end, not the *playback* end (in general).

Here's something to try: try recording a JP-8000 part with another keyboard (mapping the CCs and MIDI channel, which I think you can do in Cubase). See if playback is perfect. If it is, then you've at least figured out where the issue is coming from...

ilmolto · Posted: Sun May 10, 2009 8:57 pm Post subject:

I've just discovered something on the JP-8000 that I never knew before. It's called Test Mode. You can test all the knobs, buttons, LEDs, LCD, etc. It also has a MIDI Test on it. I don't know exactly what this is for, but when I send MIDI to the JP-8000 while in this mode, it works fine. No problems at all.

Could it be a software issue from within the JP-8000 itself? I'm on the latest OS, 1.05, but do you think I should try to re-update it? If there's anybody that has a JP-8000 and knows exactly what the MIDI Test is for, I would love to hear from you. It doesn't say anything in the manual and the LCD just reads, WAITING, even when I send MIDI to it. So there may be something else I'm not aware of.

Regards,

Daniel