Routing soundcard(s) and mixer

[Twitch'n'Tweak]

*Scratch*

[kkissinger]

Hi! I run Cubase here and use S/PDIF and ADAT, too.

For starters, you want to choose an interface to/from your computer that has the most number of channels and the least latency. If the Firewire interface from your Mackie utilizes ASIO, then that may be your best option.

What is ADAT? To make a long story short, it is a format that allows you to transmit 8 channels at 48khz, 24 bit via a single fibre optic cable. To make a "round trip" you would need two cables.

A possible setup would be to utilize the firewire interface between the Mackie mixer and the computer. You would plug your hardware devices into the Mackie mixer.

Is the firewire interface for your Mackie for audio or is it only for mixer automation?

In order to set up send effects, such as the Fireworx and Triple C you will need to set them up as External Effects and assign them to their own input and output channels.

In other words, s/pdif only has two channels... not enough. If your firewire interface has extra channels available, you can use those to send and return external effects.

[Twitch'n'Tweak]

BTW Kissinger thanks for the feedback its opening my mind to solutions so edited original post it was getting a bit hazy.

The Mackie is purely for interfacing the external synths etc for mixdown separate channels into the pc via firewire.

I think what you are saying re the efx is to use the aux sends and return these on a spare channel which is a good idea. Means i could mix with dr/wet before going into the pc.

Another idea and don't know if its possible would be use the mackie for dy inputs and somehow have a soundcard for send/return to the outboard from within cubase. But I do not think Windows or Cubase can use more than 1 Asio driver at a time....so may need to from Mackie via analogue and get a 8in/8out soundcard for monitoring mix/4-5 outboard send return pairs and 2 for the mackie in...which would make the firewire redundant...maybe on ebay soon...we will see

Ideally an asio driver or someway in cubase4 to use the AccessTI as a soundcard and the firewire as well as the Echo MI24 audio interface...gets complex from here...

[kkissinger]

Just to review:

(Note: in Cubase, the software "Channel strips" are called tracks. A Channel is a hardware channel.)

Note that you send to the FX track(s) from the sends on your Audio track strips.

To create an FX track with your external effect, you go to
Devices/VST Connections and choose the External FX tab. It prompts you for the number of channels in and out. Once you confirm this, Cubase creates an external fx buss and displays it for you. You will specify your Audio Device (your ASIO Driver) and the "Device Port" is the hardware channel number.

For example, if your ASIO/Firewire interface supports eight channels in and out, you could (for example) Input 1 and 2 and output 1 and 2 as your main stereo outputs. Channels 3 thru 8 would be available to use as your effects send/and receive channels. In general, I try to use the same channel numbers in and out so I don't get confused. For example, for a stereo effect your could send on output channels 3-4 and return on channels 3-4.

After you do this you can then add an Audio, FX, or Group track and choose your external effect as an INSERT effect.

This gets confusing at first -- to use the external device as a SEND effect you create an FX or Group track. You add the effect as an INSERT on the FX or group track. From your Audio track, you then SEND to the FX or Group track.

In general, I prefer to use GROUP tracks rather than FX tracks. The reason is that you can SEND from a GROUP track to another GROUP track or FX. An FX Track doesn't allow you to send to other effects. (This too, gets a little tricky -- a group track can send to a group track that you've added however an added group track can't send "backwards" to a group track you've already added.)

So, what's the "bottom line" here? Simply that for an external effect, you have to have available hardware ports (channels). Once you specify the channels and hook up the external effect, you choose it the same as you would a VST effect.

However -- there is one difference -- you can only have one instance of a hardware effect. That is, you can only insert it in one place in your signal chain. With VST effects, you can have as many instances of the effect as you want (limited only be memory and CPU capacity).

I know that this is a long-winded explanation however if you understand this, then you can make an informed decision on which interface to use.

You need as many hardware connections and ports as needed to make the connections to your hardware effects.

(You only use one firewire cable but it supports multiple ports -- limited only by the bandwidth of your firewire interface and PCI bus. Note that the firewire port shares bandwidth on the PCI bus with the video card and other hardware devices).

[Twitch'n'Tweak]

Thanks again for a quality explanation and time.

You have actually answered another question on my mind and that is to do with the bandwidth and available sends available with soundcards if I decided to get another soundcard and daisy chan in setup with the mackie mixer.

The Firewire for a mackie only has 1 stereo pair of outs for monitoring (control room) and the bottom line is to use the cubase as send/returns or inserts with the outboard I will need to look at another /additionalaudio interface.

Think my solution for how I work will be to use the spare input channels on the mackie mixer ie the last two, as route returns , from the aux sends on the mixer this will then mean I will have 2 stereo strips in cubase with the wet channels.
I will have to look at the possibility of another soundcard (firewire if bandwidth will support) when i got some more cash for direct routing from cubase for now I need to work with what I have.

The wall I believe I hit is limitations on what I can connect and have working at the same time. Windows i believe can only support 1 ASIO at any 1 time so i would have to choose between the Echo soundcard or the access virus ti inputs or the mackie firewire inputs.

Think I was hoping for something thats not possible.

Again thanks for the quality explanation.

Still pulling the hair, but will get there

[kkissinger]

I use an RME800 interface and am very happy with it -- you may want to look into something such as the RME800.

In the meantime you can work with VST effects. Besides the effects that ship with Cubase, there are hundreds (if not thousands) of VST effects that you can download for free. I have found some great pitch-shifters and other effects.

This will allow you to explore the world of VST automation and master the signal routing within Cubase.

One feature of Cubase that is not obvious is that you can use a MIDI controller to control any VST parameter in Cubase, as well as the transport and editing functions. (Check out Devices/External Devices).

Now, what to do with your favorite external effects? You might consider using them as INSERT effects on the Mackie's input strips.

Have fun!

[Twitch'n'Tweak]

Thanks again KK

Its amazing how far down the rabbit hole you can go and suddenly realise you need to rethink things.

I will actually take the time and look at the inbuilt effects in Cubase4 and as you say freebies. Wanted to try and rig up in how I wanted and as mentioned outside the hardwares capabilities.

Think a new soundacrds in order for what i need to achieve but for now your suggestion is working well.

The sends are now returned to their own channels on the mixer and allows a good balance of raw and effected signals. A bonus is that each channel has a send which means I can route and chain the signal to record in the daw...a big THANKYOU...

Next purchase I think is either a fireface800 or Echo Firewire interface which actually has 2 insert channels on the interface...which in my opinion is pretty useful.

[Twitch'n'Tweak]

Ok well 6 months on and I came across the post.

Wanted to update you and pass on thanks if you still read here.

Got a great deal on a RME FF800 and do not regret it. fantastic bit of kit.

Not only sorted my routing problems, using adat and loving the sweet sound of this unit.

Love the input with the distortion etc works well on the Porphet08's analogue sounds.

Recently invested in NI Komplete 5 for a bargain £300 so creativity levels have shot up again.

Still use the Mackie for mixing and routing but the FF is my diehard interface and all the Cubase routing is working fine. Got the Fireworx/Tc compressors and reverb unit all nicely routed to and from Cubase5 along with several of the synths workflow much better and routing is nice.

Thanks again for your help and advice.

Mucho appreciated