What's the concept behind Lunetta?

ChrisLody · Joined: Aug 09, 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Boston, UK

Hello everyone.

I just stumbled across this forum after seeing a Lunetta in a youtube vid and wondering what it was. I've been building a few noise makers using 40106 inverters ( http://www.youtube.com/user/ChrisLody ) since I read Nicolas Collins book so I have a fairly basic knowledge of logic and electronics but I hadn't heard of Lunetta till today.

Since I started playing around with logic circuits I have been thinking how cool it would be to have a little cheap patchable logic gate synth, but I had no idea it had been taken so far already!

The only thing that is confusing me so far is what are the generally considered boundaries of a Lunetta? Are we aiming for a pure digital logic experience or are cmos inverters and such like that work on a linear/analog fashion allowed? Are people using Op-amps (not that I'd know how!) in there Lunettas or is this generally not done?

I know it probably doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things but its all new to me. Thanks to everyone that has posted schem's on the board already, I have learned quite a lot just today Very Happy

Cheers

Chris.

RF · Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:11 am Post subject:

Hi Chris
Welcome to the forum!
I think the pumpkin vid is great - nice job.
Rules are pretty lax Smile

I have used op amps in mine for mixers and D to A conversion...
If you read through this forum you'll get a pretty good idea of what's been done so far - and feel free to take it from there to where you want it to go...

Ask questions - we'll answer the best we can.

Have fun!

bruce

ChrisLody · Joined: Aug 09, 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Boston, UK

Wow, that's a nice looking modular you have on you site! Surprised

Thanks for the reply, I still have a lot to learn it seems from skimming through some posts. I have an idea to build a little knobular synth using just a sinlge 40106. Seeing as it can be used to make Oscillators, Lfo's, AR envelopes and Waveshapers it should be pretty good if I can ever get it to work! Getting everything modulating each other is probably going to be the hard bit but I've found some useful stuff one here that should help already. I'll try to post a few prototypes and schematics for people to look at.

Would this be within the Lunetta spirit? Its a 4069 based filter, scroll down to Ghost Dance:

http://www.jiggawoo.eclipse.co.uk/guitarhq/Circuitsnippets/snippets.html

I'm guessing the audio input needs to be AC as it seems to work like a opamp in inverting mode right?. Its very similar to the WSG filter and the opamp based version a bit lower down called Q&D VCF which has to be the simplest VCF I've ever seen, and at about my level of electronic confidence!

Cheers.

DETOX · Joined: May 22, 2008 Posts: 143 Location: Germany

ChrisLody · Joined: Aug 09, 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Boston, UK

DETOX · Joined: May 22, 2008 Posts: 143 Location: Germany

ChrisLody · Joined: Aug 09, 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Boston, UK

Oh sorry Detox, I was a bit confused Very Happy

You're right, 3 years is a seriously steep learning curve, its taken me about 10 years to get to this stage!

I agree, hardware just seems more fun somehow. I love my software but can't help buying and building hardware. I can't afford a modular system though because its too expensive for me too, I'm hoping the Lunetta based stuff will be the answer for me. Maybe then I'll move onto building a full 'proper' modular system (if there's any real difference, I'm not sure there is) Smile

DETOX · Joined: May 22, 2008 Posts: 143 Location: Germany

RF · Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:11 pm Post subject:

Hey guys - Thanks for the comments on my modular Smile

If you take a look at the "Other Electronic Musical Instruments" section on those pages you'll see the two Lunetta instruments I've built, and a vid of one of them.

Re the steep learning curve - I've been building electronics and messing with audio recording and broadcasting since the mid '70's - Analog synths though, were new to me. There is a learning curve there as well - It takes a while to understand the concepts. That's what a place like electro-music.com is great for - if the "Brain Trust" made up of the people here here can't answer your question, there probably isn't an answer Shocked

The Lunetta is terribly fun - but it's obviously no where near as capable as the modular. I love the complex 'self playing' patches I can create with the modular - while I'm partial to the raw, organized chaos of the Lunetta Smile

Chris - have you seen the WSG from Ray Wilson's site? It might be a good next step.

http://www.musicfromouterspace.com/analogsynth/YOUR_FIRST_SYNTH/WSG_Reborn/WEIRDSOUNDGENERATORREBORN.php

Also - although there seem to be some problems with this site - the BBS here http://deathlehem.com/php/forums.html has a lot of great stuff on it.
Seems like everyone is banned right now in an attempt to keep the SPAM down... but I'm sure it'll be back up before too long.

Great to have you guys here!

bruce

droffset · Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:17 pm Post subject:

Welcome!

Yeah I agree with RF, the CMOS 4000 family of chips is the foundation of the Lunetta way, and if gives you tons of options and fun things to do. But if you see something that uses opamps or microcontrollers, do it! But make sure you record audio so we can hear it. Smile

I quote Mosc. "Experimentation is the only rule."

I got into it because I couldn't afford a full-on modular also.

It is what it is, just kind of go with it.

That 4069 filter looks cool, I might build one myself.
.
.
Forum member Inventor did a radio show showcasing a lot of Lunetta stuff, look here:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-36130.html

Here is a thread where another person wanted to get into it, might help you:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-35894.html

RF · Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:27 pm Post subject:

droffset · Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:44 pm Post subject:

Feels like we should compile a big post to stickie to the top, containing all of the good intro stuff from around the forum.

RF · Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:53 pm Post subject:

Hey droff

You are formally nominated to write up the UlLuSTiFAQ
(Ultimate Lunetta Sticky FAQ)

Get it right or we'll take away your chips.
bruce

droffset · Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:01 pm Post subject:

That's what I get for speaking up, you think I would have learned by now... Embarassed

By the way RF I have some wacky uncommon chips I want to send you to see what havoc you can squeeze out of them. Laughing

RF · Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:22 pm Post subject:

Yup droffset - You walked right into it. No one to blame but yourself.

Heres another Bugs drawing, guys -

This is typical of what's in the Lunetta - how to use the chips.
How to "use them" though, is a matter of experimentation - once you start playing around with these circuits, many things become obvious - things that are more difficult to explain. If you build them, the knowledge will come.

bruce

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ChrisLody · Joined: Aug 09, 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Boston, UK

Thanks for the replies guys, it seems you have been chatting away while I've been sleeping.

Thanks for all the links RF, you say youv'e been building electronics since the 70's? You look a lot younger in your avatar! I have seen the WSG and I just ordered all the parts to build one (plus a lot more) this weekend as it happens. I'm going for the strip-board version but I guess I'll have to work out how to add all the extra tweaks that have been added recently myself (triangle wave modulation etc.)

I can't get on Deathlehem but I'll check it out when its working. Sad

As for the shift register, I'm not really sure what that's all about but I've seen it mentioned much on here. Time to go look for some data sheets.

Thanks for the links too Droffset, I'll try to listen to that radio show tonight if I have time. The other link is good stuff too.

The sticky is a great idea for people like me, could save people a lot of confused head scratching. Seems like "no-one can be told what Lunetta is, you have to see it for yourself!"

Right i've got some reading to do then.

Cheers.

ChrisLody · Joined: Aug 09, 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Boston, UK

I think I'm starting to get the idea after a bit of reading. Quite a bit of reading actually. Surprised

It seems to me the thing that sets this apart from other types of synthesis (if you can call this synthesis) is that clocks, triggers, gates and audio output are all made of the same thing, a digital square wave. The only thing that separates them is the speed of the waveform. The only time that seems not to be the case is when converting an output into a cv control signal or lfo, which of course can be used to control the speed of another waveform and therefore the output is digital again. The ammount of 4000 series chip that can chew up those digital waveforms is impressive.

The possibilties are quite mind blowing when I think about it. Best not to think too much, just bung some stuff together and see what happens. Sounds like fun, I'm in! Very Happy

RF · Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:46 am Post subject:

I think you've got it -

By the way - It's even more fun than it sounds Laughing

I am looking forward to hearing your square wave manipulations.
bruce

ChrisLody · Joined: Aug 09, 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Boston, UK

I probably won't be able to resist cross pollinating it with a bit of subtractive analog synthesis, but atlest I sort of know where the boundary between the two lies.

I'll be sure to return with something evil and noisy Wink

Cheers

Rykhaard · Joined: Sep 02, 2007 Posts: 1290 Location: Canada

Welcome to EM Chris! This place is THE place to learn from some of the best! Smile

In my few years here, I've been blown away by the friendliness as well as gargantuan amounts of knowledge that flow about here. Surprised

Thankfully, there're now tons and tons of ideas in messages just in the Lunetta section here. Easily more'n enough to get started. Very Happy

droffset · Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:32 pm Post subject:

I have a rough outline and first draft of a Welcome to Lunetta document, it's already about 8 pages in word, with 20 'chapters' planned, hehe. Will probably just post it as a new thread and update/revise it on the fly as people give feedback. Need to ask Mosc if it's okay to post a thread and 20 replies to it to sort of reserve the chapter space.

Mosc is that too spammy?

ChrisLody · Joined: Aug 09, 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Boston, UK

ChrisLody · Joined: Aug 09, 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Boston, UK