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mrdos
Joined: Aug 06, 2015
Posts: 17
Location: New Orleans
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 Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:10 pm Post subject:
MAJOR ERROR/Broken USB Question |
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Hey, I see you guys have figured out some stuff about the USB issues.
I just recently got a G2 after wanting one for a long time. Of course, it was used, and it was on consignment at a shop, where I ordered it through mail.
When it got in, it was having the "MAJOR ERROR" issue and losing connectivity in the OSX Editor. Then it got worse, and it's really bad now.
I emailed Nord, and the turnaround took a while, but the regional person got back to me here, and said it is likely a hardware issue, and I would have to take it in.
So I have emailed the shop, to see if possibly they or the owner would pay for the service, or whether they would rather do a refund (or whether they are going to screw me over).
I am actually hoping it is the first one, that they will pay to fix it. Because I'd really like to keep this synth... But I don't want to pay any more for it really. I already paid a lot (the price keeps going up!).
I don't know how to solder and am not comfortable doing it. Do you guys know how much it would cost me if they say "refund only" and I decide to keep it and have Nord (or an independent place) fix it?
Do they have to replace a giant component and its super expensive? Apparently the only Nord-trained techs in the country are not too far from me and their labor rate is $65/hr, but he mentioned nothing about parts (except that it could be any number of things).
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varice
Joined: Dec 29, 2004
Posts: 961
Location: Northeastern shore of Toledo Bend
Audio files: 29
G2 patch files: 54
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:30 pm Post subject:
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I would tend to doubt there is a hardware problem with your G2 synth. You mentioned in another post that you “upgraded” the G2 OS to v1.62 (a possible mistake as you probably now realize if you are going to use an Apple computer for the Editor). If so, then the G2 synth hardware is working OK and is probably not at fault. As far as I know, the MAJOR ERROR message usually occurs only after the USB communication has been already working fine for some time until it crashes for some reason. So, I wouldn’t recommend sending it for service just yet. I think that all you need to do is find a PC with at least Windows XP loaded and follow the instructions posted in this thread to downgrade the G2 to OS v1.40:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-31827.html
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mrdos
Joined: Aug 06, 2015
Posts: 17
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:22 pm Post subject:
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| varice wrote: | I would tend to doubt there is a hardware problem with your G2 synth. You mentioned in another post that you “upgraded” the G2 OS to v1.62 (a possible mistake as you probably now realize if you are going to use an Apple computer for the Editor). If so, then the G2 synth hardware is working OK and is probably not at fault. As far as I know, the MAJOR ERROR message usually occurs only after the USB communication has been already working fine for some time until it crashes for some reason. So, I wouldn’t recommend sending it for service just yet. I think that all you need to do is find a PC with at least Windows XP loaded and follow the instructions posted in this thread to downgrade the G2 to OS v1.40:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-31827.html |
Hello,
That post was only part of the story. I just did not want to convolute the topic.
I was receiving "Major Error" from the moment I plugged it in. I perceived it as getting a bit worse after going from 1.40 to 1.62, but I don't really know if it did. Either way, it was messed up from the moment it came out of the box.
Furthermore, the Nord tech specifically said he has five G2's running 1.62, and none of them have any problems with USB, and that many/most users have no problems with this "Major Error"/USB problems. I tend to believe he is right, given the great number of posts I have found here regarding USB hardware failures.
So I think it is obviously a USB hardware failure, not an OS problem (though I was desperate to solve it with an OS fix, which cannot help, and is impossible anyway). I just did not want to complicate the first post.
However, I will try to find an XP machine to install from Windows (though I fear I will run into the same problem as in Parallels, with 1.40 Updater not recognizing 1.62).
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varice
Joined: Dec 29, 2004
Posts: 961
Location: Northeastern shore of Toledo Bend
Audio files: 29
G2 patch files: 54
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 10:59 pm Post subject:
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| mrdos wrote: | | …I was receiving "Major Error" from the moment I plugged it in. I perceived it as getting a bit worse after going from 1.40 to 1.62, but I don't really know if it did. Either way, it was messed up from the moment it came out of the box… |
Since you were apparently successful to “upgrade” your G2 to v1.62 via USB, that would seem to indicate that there is probably nothing wrong with your G2 synth USB. I will say once again- that process would most certainly have failed if there really was a problem with your G2. The MAJOR ERROR message is a known problem that can occur without any G2 hardware problem. It has been reported that using certain USB hubs can cause this error message while using the Editor. Using a different USB hub (or connecting the G2 directly to a PC port) will eliminate or reduce this connection problem. So, just because you are occasionally getting the MAJOR ERROR message does NOT necessarily *prove* that there is a fault with your G2.
| mrdos wrote: | | …However, I will try to find an XP machine to install from Windows (though I fear I will run into the same problem as in Parallels, with 1.40 Updater not recognizing 1.62)… |
Your fear may not be warranted since it has been done successfully before as described in the topic that I linked to above…
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004
Posts: 1148
Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 236
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:14 am Post subject:
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| varice wrote: | | The MAJOR ERROR message is a known problem that can occur without any G2 hardware problem. It has been reported that using certain USB hubs can cause this error message while using the Editor. |
Patching at the teetering limits of total DSP and memory capacity causes it quite frequently too.  |
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mrdos
Joined: Aug 06, 2015
Posts: 17
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:37 am Post subject:
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| varice wrote: | | mrdos wrote: | | …I was receiving "Major Error" from the moment I plugged it in. I perceived it as getting a bit worse after going from 1.40 to 1.62, but I don't really know if it did. Either way, it was messed up from the moment it came out of the box… |
Since you were apparently successful to “upgrade” your G2 to v1.62 via USB, that would seem to indicate that there is probably nothing wrong with your G2 synth USB. I will say once again- that process would most certainly have failed if there really was a problem with your G2. The MAJOR ERROR message is a known problem that can occur without any G2 hardware problem. It has been reported that using certain USB hubs can cause this error message while using the Editor. Using a different USB hub (or connecting the G2 directly to a PC port) will eliminate or reduce this connection problem. So, just because you are occasionally getting the MAJOR ERROR message does NOT necessarily *prove* that there is a fault with your G2.
| mrdos wrote: | | …However, I will try to find an XP machine to install from Windows (though I fear I will run into the same problem as in Parallels, with 1.40 Updater not recognizing 1.62)… |
Your fear may not be warranted since it has been done successfully before as described in the topic that I linked to above… |
Hey Varice,
I'm not trying to argue with you. Perhaps I did not fully explain my problem.
Yes, I was able to upgrade the unit, because the G2 will stay connected for a short period of time before losing connection completely.
However, it loses the connection (and reports "Major Error") frequently, randomly, whenever data is transferred (e.g., when I am turning a knob in the editor, changing anything in the editor, loading a patch, etc). So I may be humming along for 30 seconds or so, then I get "Major Error" while loading a patch or turning a knob, and the connection is completely gone.
I then have to unplug the USB, and plug it in again. I then get "Major Error" over and over, until 5-10 attempts later, the connection works again.
I was able to update the OS when I had a stable enough connection; I think I got lucky. However, I am not actually certain that the connection held the entire time.
After the OS updated, the OS updater said it could not find the G2 (this was the native OS X updater). So I think it was stable long enough to transfer the OS image over, but then lost the connection while the G2 was flashing its OS internally (and then unable to verify it due to the corrupted connection–same as what happens in the editor and in general). So, the keyboard rebooted and had the new OS, but the Updater program never actually finished; it sat waiting for the keyboard, which never showed up, due to *lost connection*.
To be honest I was trying to update the OS because I thought it might help this USB problem.
I will paste below the response from the US Nord Technician.
| Quote: | Please forgive my slow response. I have been ill lately and some things have not gotten completed within the time frame I'm used to delivering.
It is a virtual certainty that the issues you are having will not disappear even if you are successful in downgrading OS. It may be that there is an issue with regard to the USB circuitry itself. If this condition persists, your best move may be to have it inspected by a competent tech. In NOLA I am generally aware of the Organ Doctor, who does work on Nords from time to time. Additionally, we have an in-house service shop upriver in Southaven, MS. We have the only Nord-trained tech staff in the nation, a broad stock of Nord parts, and a competitive $65/hr labor rate.
We do not have common reports of this issue with OSv1.62. I own five G2s, all running v1.62, without incident, though I should perhaps add that I run on WinXP/Win7, not OSX. Still, there are many other OSX users out there are not having issues with v1.62. The kinds of things which could go wrong range from oxidized contact points or degraded solder joints to a wonky IC. The final judgment of such things is best left to the tech examining it.
Please do not hesitate to contact me again in future, by email or phone, with any further inquiries you may have regarding this or other Nord gear.
Bless,
---
Nord Technical Support USA/Canada |
As you can see, Nord reports that this is not normal. And common sense says it is not normal for a keyboard that requires an editor/USB connection to make a new patch, to lose its USB connection every 30 seconds or so, whenever transmitting continuous data.
As I mentioned, this was happening right out of the box, and I thought that upgrading the OS would improve it. It did not. I thought that downgrading it might improve it, mainly because I didn't want to deal with the idea that it could have a hardware issue, but because it has this problem with both versions of the OS, I do not think it is an OS problem.
I'd appreciate other suggestions, but I can't think of anything else so far. My Virus works fine with the USB ports I have on my Mac, so I don't think there's an issue there.[/i]
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mrdos
Joined: Aug 06, 2015
Posts: 17
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:41 am Post subject:
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| Tim Kleinert wrote: | | varice wrote: | | The MAJOR ERROR message is a known problem that can occur without any G2 hardware problem. It has been reported that using certain USB hubs can cause this error message while using the Editor. |
Patching at the teetering limits of total DSP and memory capacity causes it quite frequently too. |
Hey Tim,
Thanks for the thought 
Unfortunately it happens with any and all patches; even new, very simple ones (and happens equally regardless of DSP load).
Also it is an expanded G2, fwiw.
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mrdos
Joined: Aug 06, 2015
Posts: 17
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:51 pm Post subject:
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Looks like the shop I bought it from will cover fixing it; they do repairs. So I have to mail it back, unfortunately, but fortunately, at least it is going to be fixed.
I'm curious, do you guys think if it has a hardware issue with the USB (again, it had this out of the box, with 1.40; 1.62 did not fix it), that it is likely that other things will go wrong?
I know there is probably simply no way to know, but I'm curious whether people that had to replace USB boards had it isolated to that, or whether it tended to become systematic of other issues.
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24388
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 296
G2 patch files: 320
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:13 pm Post subject:
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FWIW ... using 1.62 works fine here on the Mac (OSX 10.10.3) with 3 expanded G2 engines connected .. one thing tho .. after I ran Wine it would not connect to the synths anymore .. had to restart the Mac, and seems OK now.
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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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ian-s
Joined: Apr 01, 2004
Posts: 2672
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Audio files: 42
G2 patch files: 626
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:52 pm Post subject:
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I have only read about the dreaded dead usb issue, no first hand experience.
From what I recall, when the usb dies, there is no activity whatsoever between the editor and G2. |
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egw
Stream Operator
Joined: Feb 01, 2003
Posts: 1569
Location: Asheville NC
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:15 am Post subject:
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Before assuming the problem is with your G2, I would try replacing each component in the connection (one at a time) - usb cable, interface, computer, operating system. Best way to isolate the cause.
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mrdos
Joined: Aug 06, 2015
Posts: 17
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:01 am Post subject:
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | FWIW ... using 1.62 works fine here on the Mac (OSX 10.10.3) with 3 expanded G2 engines connected .. one thing tho .. after I ran Wine it would not connect to the synths anymore .. had to restart the Mac, and seems OK now. |
Hey Blue Hell,
I just saw your post. Thanks a ton for the info. Could I ask you, which Mac are you using with the G2? Is it a MacBook, desktop, etc? What year?
Are you connected directly to the USB, or a hub?
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blue hell
Site Admin
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 10:57 am Post subject:
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iMac, 21.5", Late 2013, 2.7GHz i5, 8GB, 1600MHz DDR3, Intel Iris Pro 536 MB ... OSX 10.10.3.
Three G2 engines connected over direct USB.
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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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mrdos
Joined: Aug 06, 2015
Posts: 17
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:21 am Post subject:
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| Blue Hell wrote: | iMac, 21.5", Late 2013, 2.7GHz i5, 8GB, 1600MHz DDR3, Intel Iris Pro 536 MB ... OSX 10.10.3.
Three G2 engines connected over direct USB. |
Thanks, I appreciate it. Interestingly I have yet to hear from anyone or read about anyone using a very new (eg like 2014-2015) MacBook with the G2. And that's what I was using (two different laptops, a late 2014 and a 2015). Some tests were run with an iMac and it didn't have problems.
So I think it may be a problem with the shared USB bus that is in the MacBook in particular (I think maybe this was from 2013 onwards but I'm not sure).
I may try a thunderbolt USB hub which might help but is unfortunately expensive. Cheaper than a dedicated computer, though.
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
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Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:30 pm Post subject:
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| mrdos wrote: | | I may try a thunderbolt USB hub which might help but is unfortunately expensive. Cheaper than a dedicated computer, though. |
May it work 
And keep us posted please ... heh, this late 2013 machine of me is still like brandnew for me ... but it will be old in no time 
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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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lambshain
Joined: Dec 04, 2011
Posts: 15
Location: germany
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:12 am Post subject:
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| try a shorter usb cable, check usb port on the engine with wd40 for the contacts. |
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mrdos
Joined: Aug 06, 2015
Posts: 17
Location: New Orleans
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:44 pm Post subject:
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The thunderbolt USB drive DID do the trick.
I also replaced two USB cables (I figured one could be faulty, but two?), and this helped as well. The Amazon brand ones are good.
No problems since.
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philthegreek
Joined: Dec 19, 2015
Posts: 8
Location: amsterdam
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| Posted: Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:45 pm Post subject:
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Hi,
I'm not sure this has anything to do with versions of editor or driver, as no computer is even registering the G2 Modular as being connected:
My Nord G2 rack modular (expanded) is not linking it's USB with a mac pro (running os 10.9.5); I have also tried it on a PC with windows 7, and another PC on XP. Neither of the PCs had any previous drivers..
Tried opening it to check the physical connections or gunk, tried various different USB and power cables. I have the latest editor (1.62) on the Mac, and can't downgrade, because it won't work on 10.9.5 anyway.
The mac doesn't see it joined to the USB tree in devices, and when pluggin into a PC, it is not asking for new hardware so can't try different drivers there either.
I have contacted Nord with the problem, but not heard back (yet)..
Does anyone have any tips on things I can try? It is starting to sound like a hardware thing unfortunately  (
Thanks in advance,
Phil |
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philthegreek
Joined: Dec 19, 2015
Posts: 8
Location: amsterdam
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:13 am Post subject:
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Hi
I sent this info on the G2 to Nord in the netherlands. The response was:
Hi Phil,
That sounds like a problem I’ve seen before with the G2.
Probably it’s the USB board that got damaged.
Did the same thing. Testing with al different O.S. - no connection.
Board has to be replaced.
| philthegreek wrote: | Hi,
I'm not sure this has anything to do with versions of editor or driver, as no computer is even registering the G2 Modular as being connected:
My Nord G2 rack modular (expanded) is not linking it's USB with a mac pro (running os 10.9.5); I have also tried it on a PC with windows 7, and another PC on XP. Neither of the PCs had any previous drivers..
Tried opening it to check the physical connections or gunk, tried various different USB and power cables. I have the latest editor (1.62) on the Mac, and can't downgrade, because it won't work on 10.9.5 anyway.
The mac doesn't see it joined to the USB tree in devices, and when pluggin into a PC, it is not asking for new hardware so can't try different drivers there either.
I have contacted Nord with the problem, but not heard back (yet)..
Does anyone have any tips on things I can try? It is starting to sound like a hardware thing unfortunately (
Thanks in advance,
Phil |
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Electromagnetic Wave
Joined: Apr 28, 2013
Posts: 305
Location: Kebek
G2 patch files: 38
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| Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:18 pm Post subject:
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Hi,
Try with another USB cable too. And be sure to not use a cheap hub. |
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dasz
Joined: Oct 16, 2004
Posts: 1644
Location: victoria, canada
Audio files: 29
G2 patch files: 56
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| Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2022 9:03 am Post subject:
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I'm running High Sierra (10.13 on a 2015 MacBook pro) and was getting USB "Major error" dropouts every 15 minutes or so with v1.62 using the USB cable my Nord came with.
I tried a beefy Link Audio Solutions USB A to Usb B cable (10 ft because that's the shortest they had) and it ran without dropouts all day.
Happy patching.
Dasz
ps.: Sorry! Long time no post, I've been biking (among other things), but I'm getting back into patching again ... |
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