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Lofi Ninja
Joined: Oct 25, 2008 Posts: 143 Location: Jupiter
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Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 2:37 pm Post subject:
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Back again. My ECC81 tubes went missing. I found an old, bashed tube radio today. I salvaged the tubes, and among them where two ECH81's and an EL84 aswell. Can they be used for this ? I know the ech81 are heptodes but I'm pretty sure I read something about using them as oscillators in old radios or something.
Oh and there also was an EM80 tuning indicator tube.. Do you got some cute little pre-amp I can slap that on ? _________________ www.youtube.com/user/lofininja |
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frequencycentral
Joined: May 25, 2008 Posts: 186 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:23 am Post subject:
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Lofi Ninja wrote: | Back again. My ECC81 tubes went missing. I found an old, bashed tube radio today. I salvaged the tubes, and among them where two ECH81's and an EL84 aswell. Can they be used for this ? I know the ech81 are heptodes but I'm pretty sure I read something about using them as oscillators in old radios or something.
Oh and there also was an EM80 tuning indicator tube.. Do you got some cute little pre-amp I can slap that on ? |
Nice to know this thread still lives in some peoples minds!
Hmm, dunno, never used heptodes, they sure do look weird on the data sheet though. The EL84 would make the basis of a nice little amp. As for pre amp, search my posts over at http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/forums.html?board=2.0 _________________ http://www.frequencycentral.co.uk/ |
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marmora
Joined: Sep 06, 2009 Posts: 8 Location: Chicago
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Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:18 pm Post subject:
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Finished my Crushed Glass today!
Sounds great...well, it sounds great if you like noise! It's loud, it's nasty - I love it! Fans of the Atari Punk Console or similar designs will not be disappointed.
I changed the value of C4 to .1uf. I just wasn't hearing enough change with the original value. With each frequency control all the way down, the sound cuts out. Good for a quick on/off control, or so that you can hear one oscillator at a time.
I'm running it at 12v, but I tried 9v to see how it would sound and it works - the tubes just aren't coming to life the same way and the volume is lower.
This would be a great building block for a tube synth or for noise makers.
Here's the layout I used:
http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/marmora/crushed+glass.jpg.html
I used an IC to show where the tube goes. Pin 1 of the IC is pin 1 of the tube etc.
Thanks Rick (frequencycentral)! |
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Spotta
Joined: Apr 24, 2010 Posts: 22 Location: London UK
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Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:10 am Post subject:
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Hi
I have just built this following marmora's stripboard diagram and although both valves are glowing I'm only getting sound on the last third of travel of P1 and P2 has no effect at all.
Are there some voltages I can take from various places that would tell me if I have a dodgy valve? _________________ --
Spotta |
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-minus-
Joined: Oct 26, 2008 Posts: 787
Audio files: 13
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:07 am Post subject:
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Did you get yours working spotta?
My tubes were sitting in the mailbox all day! About to start breadboarding. Will report findings here shortly. Using 6111's... |
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Spotta
Joined: Apr 24, 2010 Posts: 22 Location: London UK
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-minus-
Joined: Oct 26, 2008 Posts: 787
Audio files: 13
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:01 am Post subject:
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Excellent! I was giggling like a madman all the way through your video . Noisy little buggers aren't they? I just got mine fired up on breadboard and cranked it at full volume through a bass amp...at midnight! I think I disturbed a few people.
There will now be a short intermission followed by another test at 1AM through a ring modulator.
I'm going to try a few changes with the frequency caps and see what happens. I think part of this things charm is that difference between the high pitched hiss and the low frequency thud. I noticed your pots work like mine do... which seems to be reverse to what I'd consider normal. Clockwise appears to lower the frequency here. I may change it around.
Overall though a fun circuit! |
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Spotta
Joined: Apr 24, 2010 Posts: 22 Location: London UK
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Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:04 am Post subject:
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Yep, I have a few mods to make, too busy making other euro rack projects at the mo. I do intend to make a module out of it in the end _________________ --
Spotta |
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frequencycentral
Joined: May 25, 2008 Posts: 186 Location: UK
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-minus-
Joined: Oct 26, 2008 Posts: 787
Audio files: 13
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Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:12 am Post subject:
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I've been fiddling with this a bit today, changing capacitor values etc. One thing I've been unable to do with this is ring modulation.
I've tried feeding each of the two oscillators into the inputs but had no luck. Then I fed both oscillators into the one input and a carrier signal into the other. That didn't work either. I started to think there was something wrong with the ring modulator but it checks out fine with other oscillators. I'm wondering if the output is just too f****d up (for want of a better word) to work. Any one else get this working? I'm going to get hold of some germanium diodes and try a different ring modulator design but I suspect I won't have much joy.
Still, it is a great device. There is nothing quite like it for making extreme noise. |
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Draal
Joined: May 18, 2010 Posts: 308 Location: Oak Park, IL
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:14 pm Post subject:
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I've been wanting to build the crushed glass for a while; hopefully I'll get some time to mess around with some 12AX7's with it. Got an old tiny chassis from a tube record player with blown power transformer sitting around.
Time will tell... _________________ Zontar Prevails! |
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LFLab
Joined: Dec 17, 2009 Posts: 497 Location: Rosmalen, Netherlands
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:51 am Post subject:
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Any chance on adding voltage control to these? |
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frequencycentral
Joined: May 25, 2008 Posts: 186 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:11 am Post subject:
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LFLab wrote: | Any chance on adding voltage control to these? |
You should be able to add a vacrol in the feedback loop. Or you could try installing a cathode resistor and bypass cap, then pump CV into the cathode. It's NEVER gonna be 1V/oct though! _________________ http://www.frequencycentral.co.uk/ |
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LFLab
Joined: Dec 17, 2009 Posts: 497 Location: Rosmalen, Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:41 am Post subject:
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that makes sense Rick, thanks.
And since accuracy is not possible, might make sense to use two vactrols and some control circuitry to use the same voltage divider that there's in there now. Of course four are needed since there's two oscs.
Might need to order some extras of the cheapie cheapie kind (single unmatched Silonex NSL32)
Jarno. |
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Taylor
Joined: Jul 13, 2006 Posts: 170 Location: us
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:00 am Post subject:
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In my build, there is a relatively small sweet spot within each pot that really houses interesting sounds, and they are very interactive with each other. So, to me, voltage control might not make a ton of sense as you really need an intelligent agent tuning the controls to get interesting sounds.
If you've built it and want VC, please don't let me stop you. But I'd recommend breadboarding the circuit first to get a feel for it before you start modding, if you haven't already. Just my two cents. _________________ musicpcb.com |
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frequencycentral
Joined: May 25, 2008 Posts: 186 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:34 am Post subject:
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The sweet spot could be expanded to the entire range of the pots by putting a resistor in series either side. _________________ http://www.frequencycentral.co.uk/ |
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Taylor
Joined: Jul 13, 2006 Posts: 170 Location: us
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Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:07 pm Post subject:
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frequencycentral wrote: | The sweet spot could be expanded to the entire range of the pots by putting a resistor in series either side. |
Truedat, I played around with this but for some reason didn't get satisfactory results because of the interactivity. Some sounds out of one oscillator could only be had when the other's pot is out of "useful" range.
In any case, I have a lot of fun with this and I use it as the main noise source in my modular. I even brought the tubes out onto the front panel in flamboyant fashion. Pictures soon. _________________ musicpcb.com |
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slacker
Joined: Nov 18, 2007 Posts: 301 Location: England
Audio files: 11
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:55 pm Post subject:
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You could maybe add fine adjustment pots, stick say 1k to 10k pots wired as variable resistors between the bottom of the existing pots and ground. This would let you dial in roughly the sweet spot on the original pot and then use the fine pot for greater control. |
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micyclebicycle
Joined: Jun 06, 2013 Posts: 8 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:38 pm Post subject:
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woa! it's ben a while since this has been replied too!
I have a couple miniature tubes, when i read this post i was at work, I dreamed that i had a pair of 6111s. Alas, they are 6418,
http://www.datasheetarchive.com/dl/Scans-008/Scans-00175367.pdf
They appear to have half of the pins plus the heater (5). Could i build a similar circuit and get one oscillator?
I have a 12ax7, a ecc83 and some other odds and ends available too.
I have a cabinet that uses a +12v supply so i think this could be radical in it!. |
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frequencycentral
Joined: May 25, 2008 Posts: 186 Location: UK
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Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 2:56 am Post subject:
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6418 are submini penthouses, so you also have the grid to deal with, which makes them good for VCAs too. They're quite microphonic IIR. But yeah, no reason why not to crush that glass. _________________ http://www.frequencycentral.co.uk/ |
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micyclebicycle
Joined: Jun 06, 2013 Posts: 8 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:05 am Post subject:
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frequencycentral wrote: | 6418 are submini penthouses, so you also have the grid to deal with, which makes them good for VCAs too. They're quite microphonic IIR. But yeah, no reason why not to crush that glass. |
Ha!
A Vca would actually be pretty rad, it could double as a pre-amp!
What makes the grid important for that?
Is there any simple tube VCA circuits allready out there? |
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LFLab
Joined: Dec 17, 2009 Posts: 497 Location: Rosmalen, Netherlands
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Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:36 am Post subject:
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(FINALLY) Built a crushed glass yesterday, good fun!
Used 6N16b tubes I ordered a while ago. Settled on 100nF for the top osc (in Ricks schematic) and 6n8 for the lower one.
Sounds wild!
Think I'll tinker with it some more, really should add another two oscs. And a summer/buffer/amp, not a whole lot of output.
Edit:
Continuing the tinkering, I like 2.2uF as an output cap better than the 10uF I had in there (do not have 1uF in my parts bin). Used 6 volt heaters with a regulator earlier, but that's crap, a ton of heat, lots of current being pulled. Better use the way Rick mentioned (heaters of two tubes in series), and better read threads rather than just build something of of the schematic!
I do like it better with an unregulated powersupply, but mine hums when I do not use my bench PSU but a unregulated wallwart. With the wallwart, the sound is somewhat more plyable and erratic, which is nice, but for the hum, which is not nice. Need to somehow combine the two, but a bit more work on the PSU is needed.
Still feel that it would benefit from adding another two oscs, something tuned a bit higher, and perhaps a modulation osc tuned lower.
Would like to turn this into a module (with it's own dedicated power supply!). |
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Snaper
Joined: Feb 28, 2014 Posts: 217 Location: Hungary
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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:27 pm Post subject:
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Any chance for a layout?
(Pcb) |
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LFLab
Joined: Dec 17, 2009 Posts: 497 Location: Rosmalen, Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:59 am Post subject:
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Nope, built it on perfboard, its only ten components or so. |
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Snaper
Joined: Feb 28, 2014 Posts: 217 Location: Hungary
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Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 2:35 am Post subject:
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Wohooo, challange for a PCB layout |
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