electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Digital Reverb PT2399, 6 delays modules.
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar, Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus
Page 1 of 2 [30 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Author Message
AnalogCustom



Joined: Jun 23, 2009
Posts: 52
Location: Chile

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:02 am    Post subject: Digital Reverb PT2399, 6 delays modules.
Subject description: MN3011 BBD multitap emulation.
Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

*ORIGINAL LINK, SPANISH, Updated with 6 modules*
http://sites.google.com/site/analogcustomkits/Home/reverb-digital


This is my digital reverb project. It consists of 5 echo modules connected in parallel.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


The modules (x 5 o more)
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Demos:

http://www.goear.com/listen/9ecfa8a/Demo-Reverb-
http://www.goear.com/listen/9a42ad1/Reverb-2-

initial: Dry + feedback = 0 ---- feedback from minimum to maximum (from long delay) ----- silence ----- Feedback 75% from medium delay.
http://www.goear.com/listen/16548ad/Demo-Reverb-3-AnalogCustom

Soon upload the information

Sorry, I do not speak English.

Regards from Chile.

ACS.

Last edited by AnalogCustom on Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:56 pm; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
TekniK



Joined: Aug 10, 2008
Posts: 1059

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It sounds realy great mate!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tim Servo



Joined: Jul 16, 2006
Posts: 924
Location: Silicon Valley
Audio files: 11

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:22 pm    Post subject: Digital Reverb PT2399, 5 delays... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice work! I like the method of using multiple echo units for a reverb effect. Looking forward to seeing more info. Smile

Tim (only one unit) Servo
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4761
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Digital Reverb PT2399, 5 delays... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tim Servo wrote:
I like the method of using multiple echo units for a reverb effect.


Yes, I'd like to do something similar using 2 * MN3011s. In the analogue domain, I think it's really the way to go. Reverb is, afterall, a set of varying delays interacting with each other.

_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Luka



Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: Melb.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

sounds great
pls i would love to hear more

_________________
problemchild
melbourne australia
http://cycleofproblems.blogspot.com/
http://www.last.fm/user/prblmchild
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
diablojoy



Joined: Sep 07, 2008
Posts: 809
Location: melbourne australia
Audio files: 11

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

does sound very good
looking forward to hearing more
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4761
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What are the 5 delay settings? Roughly?
_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
iorobyy



Joined: Sep 26, 2005
Posts: 65
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sound very good! Shocked , the pcbs look like 5 geofx - pt2399 echoes , it's correct?
The project is very interesting...
more infomations needed soon please!! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AnalogCustom



Joined: Jun 23, 2009
Posts: 52
Location: Chile

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:38 pm    Post subject: Digital Reverb PT2399, 6 delays... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Spanish Version. English version soon.
(los acentos ortograficos son omitidos a proposito)
*********************************************************
Este proyecto lo cree basandome en 2 proyectos de Reverb Analogica de Maplin (ETI). Mi objetivo fue emular las características del MN3011, "3328-Stage BBD with 6 Taps". El pcb lo hice basado en el diseño de geofex, R.G. Keen, pero tiene varias modificaciones.

Mi objetivo no es crear una reverb de alta fidelidad. Mi idea es crear una reverb con un sonido especial, con un caracter sonoro poco comun.

El proyecto definitivo es con 6 modulos.
Acá una muestra de audio con 6 modulos y "variable delay time" (long delay):
http://www.goear.com/listen/a5298a2/Reverb-6-modules-AnalogCustom

Los tiempos de delay los escogi de manera arbitraria en base al datasheet del PT2399 y buscando tiempos semejantes al MN3011. En teoria estos no deben ser multiplos en entre si (ver el proyecto ETI reverb o el datasheet del MN3011).

El esquema base de cada modulo es el siguente:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

El PCB de cada modulo:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


Como es complejo medir el clock del PT para ajustar los tiempos, decidi que la mejor opción es medir el voltaje en el pin de cada modulo denominado "TIME" en el pcb (TIME DELAY). Este voltaje lo obtuve luego de ajustar la resistencia de cada trimmer segun los valores que indicaba el datasheet respecto a cada tiempo de delay. Para tener un control extra del sonido decidi hacer ajustable el ultimo modulo, el del delay más largo. Toda esta información podran encontrarla en el archivo pdf adjunto.

http://sites.google.com/site/analogcustomkits/pt2399-digital-delay-project-part-1/PT2399%2CDigitalReverbProject.pdf


Acá una muestra con "variable time delay (long delay, 5 modules)":

http://www.goear.com/listen/dfce5c1/Digital-Reverb-PT2399-w-variable-Time-Delay-AnalogCustom

La mezcla de cada modulo NO es igual. Es desde mayor ganancia (delay corto) hasta menor ganacia (delay largo), semejante al proyecto de "ETI reverb".

Todas las opiniones y sugerencias seran muy bien recibidas.

Pronto la segunda parte: Main PCB...


AnalogCustomSynth

Last edited by AnalogCustom on Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:50 am; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
SineSurfer



Joined: Jan 19, 2007
Posts: 45
Location: Mexico

PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hola Marco y bienvenido!

very interesting/muy interesante!

the BSS synth looks cool too Wink

_________________
Freddy, riding the wave!
http://www.hakkenmusic.blogspot.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
fluxmonkey



Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Posts: 708
Location: cleve

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

googlish translation: http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.electro-music.com%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ft%3D35276%26sid%3D30ed29fbc099ca6974031c436d2b76aa&sl=es&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

nice job!

_________________
www.fluxmonkey.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AnalogCustom



Joined: Jun 23, 2009
Posts: 52
Location: Chile

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:53 pm    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thank you very much !!!

There is an error in the calculation of time. Failed to add the resistance of 1k of each module. An engineer friend helped me in the calculations. The correct time calculated by Lagrange Interpolation:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

The example of audio with 6 modules was done with the times.

The MN3011 times, according to the following table (datasheet):

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.


The minimum delay time to delivery of the datasheet PT2399 is 31.3 msec. Calculating by the method of Lagrange interpolation values to emulate the MN3011 are:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

The correct word is "trimmer." Sorry...


Cordiales Saludos!!!

Marco.

Last edited by AnalogCustom on Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4761
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm thinking about doing a similar (module based) project using MN3205 BBDs.
_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
AnalogCustom



Joined: Jun 23, 2009
Posts: 52
Location: Chile

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
I'm thinking about doing a similar (module based) project using MN3205 BBDs.


Genial! Great!!!
So we can exchange ideas. I have some ideas for the motherboard such as a stereo mix of the echoes, CV time, CV decay (VCA for feedback), CV amount (VCA for effect level), etc...

Here a block diagram of a Maplin project:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

I have the schematics in a book. If you need it can be sent to your email.

A sample audio with drum machine (Reverb PT2399, 6 modules):
http://www.goear.com/listen/4f19fff/reverb-PT-drum-AnalogCustom

Marco
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4761
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's a pic of what I'm thinking of doing.
I just need to work out how I can mix the compressed signals.


Delay idea.xls
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  Delay idea.xls
 Filesize:  21.5 KB
 Downloaded:  1121 Time(s)


_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
iorobyy



Joined: Sep 26, 2005
Posts: 65
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hello!
Could you post the remaining informations of the project, signal mixer, buffers , controls etc., i'm trying to make a single board pcb
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4761
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I've changed my tack on this slightly.
I'm now going to breadboard just one delay with it's associated level and speed controls, and when I have that running well, I'll incorporate a second delay unit and decide on the mixing/feedback routing. Then add the third delay etc.
I think it will still end up being a number of identical modules connected to a motherboard which will hold the preamp, output summer, PSU, and feedback busses.

_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
AnalogCustom



Joined: Jun 23, 2009
Posts: 52
Location: Chile

PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 3:42 pm    Post subject: Update... Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Final Panel with new feature: Delay/Reverb Control.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Schematics:

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Demo:









ORIGINAL LINK, SPANISH
(Enlace del proyecto en español):

http://sites.google.com/site/analogcustomkits/Home/reverb-digital





Soon PCB...


Marco Antonio.

Last edited by AnalogCustom on Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:46 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
iorobyy



Joined: Sep 26, 2005
Posts: 65
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Goooood Very Happy ,i'm waiting for this final infos , i'm working on a pcb too , but i have no pt2399 (ordered) for to prototype
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
loss1234



Joined: Jul 24, 2007
Posts: 1536
Location: nyc
Audio files: 41

PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

this is really great

since the MN3011 seems to be impossible to find (anyone know where to find one?) and the PT2399 is a very cheap chip, this gets many ideas going!!!

thanks

_________________
-------------------------------------------- check out various dan music at: http://www.myspace.com/lossnyc
http://www.myspace.com/snazelle
http://www.soundclick.com/lossnyc.htm http://www.indie911.com/dan-snazelle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AnalogCustom



Joined: Jun 23, 2009
Posts: 52
Location: Chile

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hello:
There is a reverb module. Apparently the module works similarly.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

There are 3 versions: Short, Medium and Long reverb.

You can buy smallbear:
http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=780


I heard some demos of Belton module and the sound is very similar:
http://www.abbianengineering.com/misc/BeltonCarrier.html

Regards.

Marco Antonio.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
iorobyy



Joined: Sep 26, 2005
Posts: 65
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i've ordered 2 pieces one week ago from small bear , it seem interesting!
more infos here...
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_verb_sc.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AnalogCustom



Joined: Jun 23, 2009
Posts: 52
Location: Chile

PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

iorobyy wrote:
i've ordered 2 pieces one week ago from small bear , it seem interesting!
more infos here...
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_verb_sc.pdf


Info Patent:

http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat20090003614.pdf

Regards.

Marco.


esquema Belton1.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  71.32 KB
 Viewed:  519 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

esquema Belton1.jpg



esquema Belton2.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  78.19 KB
 Viewed:  575 Time(s)
This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

esquema Belton2.jpg


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Uncle Krunkus
Moderator


Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4761
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks heaps for these last two pics.
My MN3205 experiments have led me to a place where I have 3 * 4096 stage BBD delays, and the last piece was to find a tried and tested way of mixing them together. This is just perfect!
I toyed with the idea of building what would be a DimC with long delays and keep a 3205 for a spare, but I think implementing the DimC modulation into this three delay system with cross feedback options will actually produce a more unique unit. Very Happy

_________________
What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
deathfaces



Joined: Dec 21, 2009
Posts: 3
Location: philadelphia, pa

PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

are you using two different power supplies for this (5v & 15+-v)? is it possible to use a voltage regulator off the 15+ to power the 5v modules?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic Moderators: jksuperstar, Scott Stites, Uncle Krunkus
Page 1 of 2 [30 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use