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First soundmaker story and the discovery of the wp-20 [long]
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toppobrillo



Joined: Dec 10, 2005
Posts: 766
Location: oakland, ca
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:48 pm    Post subject: First soundmaker story and the discovery of the wp-20 [long]
Subject description: - inspired by reading WSG posts-
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like alot of people, my first attempt at building a sound-maker involved a trip to radio shack, a 555 and a forest mims mini-engineer's note-book [i still have it].

the salesclerk was completely clueless [no-kidding] i knew absolutely no-one with any knowledge whatsoever about electronics, and this was before i [or anybody i knew] had any access to or knew really anything about the internet.

i didn't understand anything about electronics really, couldn't follow circuits, let alone a bunch of circuits working together... i really just wanted to make electronic sounds. well needless to say, the 555 astable left much to be desired. so i went to the library.

i found 'the beginner's book of electronic music' by delton horn.

this book really put things in perspective for me.. it was very "math-lite", and obviously geared to the interest of the sound-person, which was very cool.

i had a breadboard at this point and i began to prototype cicuits i would find in books. i got '49 easy electronic projects for transconductance and norton op-amps' by delton horn. this introduced me to the 3900 and the 13600. cool stuff.

i got access to the internet. i got alot of schematics this way. i really wanted to do as much as i possibly could with as little $$$ as i could.
a modular synthesizer was just too much of a project to start, i thought, in terms of money and time and even space, which i had veerrrry little of.
i wanted to make a small, portable but capable box that could be easily powered by battery.

this led me to ray wilson's old website when i did a search once for 'mini-synth' on google. this was i think 2002??

this was of course before the soundlab, so this 'mini-synth' i found was the WP-20. i thought it was really amazing that this guy was so generous in sharing his stuff like that. so i was then set on building this WP-20.. and did so on a strip-board but with 2 VCOs, 2 LFOs, and 2 EGs. it was half strip-board and half bread-board for a long time and very messy with wires all over, hard to get to stuff etc. i was determining my front panel layout based on the functionality of things.. [i ended up making it into a CD case sized wooden box, with a better LFO i designed with TL064]

during this time i also designed a PCB layout for the 2 VCOs, 2 LFOs, and 2 EGs WP-20, in case i would build another, more easily. this was only my 2nd or 3rd PCB design ever, and i guess i was afraid of any angle other than 90 degrees [haha]. i never actually built one from this layout, so cannot be 100% sure it's all correct, but i am 99.5%.

so, if there are those who are interested, i will share this layout with y'all.
the PCB measures 3.5 x 6" and all I/O wires are handled by 12-pin headers positioned around the outer edges of the board.

its cool for sure, but for the money, i guess, why not build a soundlab?

i can put it on here, if there is interest, but i don't want to see it up on ebay selling for $500, unless ray and i get a cut haha!

[that's a whole other topic]

josh
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Wild Zebra



Joined: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Ohio
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hell yeh you should post it!!. I already built a Sound Lab, but I still want to make a WP-20 so I can sell it on ebay SYKE!! I can only speak for myself, but I have put to much time and energy and just, wel,l love my noise gadgets so much I could never get rid of them. Unless and only unless I was in some serious dire straights. Well welcome to the site and I'm sure you'll enjoy your stay here.

I'm still asuper novice I'll have to see if my local library has those books

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toppobrillo



Joined: Dec 10, 2005
Posts: 766
Location: oakland, ca
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:33 pm    Post subject: books- check em out! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey yeah i guess it's always a good idea to go to the library Cool .. though the university's engineering lib will have much much more.

that delton horn guy has written quite a few books published by TAB. one i have been looking for for a while is called "music synthesizers: a manual of design and construction" i have seen this on ebay for ALOT of $$ and, of course, you don't know exactly what you're getting out of it.. but it seems like you can always pick up something useful.

his books [maybe all TAB books?] seem to have alot of errors in them, for being what they are, technical books, but i think most are pretty easy to sort. [i think] and most circuits he presents are really simple ones also.

i go look for books whenever i can, and buy some off ebay. by the way its cool those thomas henry books are coming back.

i wish i had a scanner, i would definitely scan some of these circuits and put them up online somewhere. maybe my 'webcam' will do for some of them, or, perhaps, they could stand to be redrawn...
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Wild Zebra



Joined: Apr 28, 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I ordered some books from the library and the one you are talking about is one of them. Maybe when I get it I'll scan the TOC. If anything interests you I can try and upload it.
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toppobrillo



Joined: Dec 10, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

here is the bookcover of this one, the table of contents [hard to read sorry] collage of sample illustrations inside. [check the patch-cord holder "nailed to wall".. "wall" haha pretty funny]

but yeah it's very basic and discusses [as you may or may not be able to see exactly] everything from our ears, to improvisation, tape splicing, "is the avant-garde a dead end?" etc. [heheh] basic components, controllers, commercially available systems [1982] etc. some nice appendix material too. including manufacturers [a/da, aries, arp, blacet, casheab, casio, crumar, curtis electromusic specialties..] a discography, bibliography etc.

cool yeah id love to see some stuff out of that book. did you order it from another branch or saomething? you are in ohio? have you ever been over to oberlin? they have a good electronic music thing i hear.

anyways.. yeah im having alittle difficulty getting this WP-20 pcb to come out of the software i used to make it correctly. it is a 'demo' so i can't export the .pcb files , i have to do a 'printscreen' but since the pcb design is so big, the resolution at which i can get it all like that is not very good. i usually do it at 2x size, then shrink it. so i may have to just do it in segments and put them together in paint or something. hmm. ill let you know.

josh


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Wild Zebra



Joined: Apr 28, 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
did you order it from another branch or saomething

Yep, I just go online to Columbus Metro Library and they send it to the branch I go to. Haven't been to Oberlin. Got anymore info. Where are you from? Hoping the books arrived today. Keep you posted. Good luck on the pcb's. I look forward to it. I just downloaded Express PCB as I am still a total novice, but I figured its about time I try and learn alittle more about Schem to pcb and just about anything else.

til later

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toppobrillo



Joined: Dec 10, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

cool about those books! im very interested to see.

im in michigan for now. i am using PCB DESIGNER from niche software. its real simple and super easy.

here is a screen shot and a layout i did to help me place parts on a proto-board that radioshack sells.

i kind of enjoy designing layouts for things, and i have alot that have never been made actually, because i use press n' peel, i try to fill up a 8.5 x 11 sheet of transfer stuff, i don't want to waste it!

maybe i should do a batch of boards soon. i just did a board layout for a small, simple triple output regulated powersupply to fit in a small place, it's only 2.25" x 3".

josh


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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmmmm, nice. Express PCB didn't exactly work how I thought. I thought you designed the schem and then I thought I could open up PCB and it would open up all the components with the traces connected and then I could drag the components to where I wanted and arrange the traces. You know, do most of the work for me so I could get a better Idea of how its done. Well back to the drawing board.
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Macaba



Joined: Jul 13, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wild Zebra wrote:
Hmmmm, nice. Express PCB didn't exactly work how I thought. I thought you designed the schem and then I thought I could open up PCB and it would open up all the components with the traces connected and then I could drag the components to where I wanted and arrange the traces. You know, do most of the work for me so I could get a better Idea of how its done. Well back to the drawing board.


Software that does this is the PROTEUS PRO pcb design suite, you draw your schematic in ISIS then the net list is transferred to ARES where when you start a trace, it shows you which pins the trace needs to end up. Very clever.

http://www.labcenter.co.uk

You can get a demo of the professional version here:

http://www.labcenter.co.uk/download/prodemo_download.htm#professional

It does not allow saving or printing. So you are really limited to simple designs that fit on the screen so you can screen shot it to paint, etc. At least, this is what you can legally do.

Its really very nice software, easily my favorate PCB design package. Shame about the price, but the demo fulfils my need, and if i need bigger, then I can do it at college where they have full version.
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opg



Joined: Mar 29, 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wouldn't it be cool to have a program that actually created the sounds (other than just the PC speaker buzzer) that would be made by the components you arrange? Does this exist?
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Macaba



Joined: Jul 13, 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Indeed, ISIS simulates the circuit you build, using SPICE, and you can connect a virtual oscilloscope to the circuit and see the waveform. But i'm afraid this can't be sent to the sound card.

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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey tahnks Macaba. What about Eagle PCB. I have not installed the demo yet, but it looks like it has auto-router
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opg



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Macaba wrote:
Indeed, ISIS simulates the circuit you build, using SPICE, and you can connect a virtual oscilloscope to the circuit and see the waveform. But i'm afraid this can't be sent to the sound card.


Seems like it would be somewhat easy, but the software designers probably felt that this wouldn't a big priority out of all the non-music users of the programs.
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jksuperstar



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That would be cool to have a circuit simulator (like SPICE or ISIS) that would be like an analog simulator but be a VST (, LADSPA, AU) plugin. Eventually, as PC's got faster and programmer's get less resourceful, I think this will happen (or has under the hood somewhere!).
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toppobrillo



Joined: Dec 10, 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey did you ever get that book? is it any count?

did i not spend $75 wisely?

josh
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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, I did get it. Are you saying you bought it? I was hoping you would hold off. I could have scanned sections you wanted. I haven't had the time to really look at it. I'm in the process of moving.
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toppobrillo



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nono i was saying i did not buy. cool. im interested to see that stuff. moving huh where to?

josh
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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Don't forget that there is also Eagle-CAD which if you are designing small boards- is free, works on Windows, Linux, OSX and includes an autorouter.

http://www.cadsoft.de/info.htm

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Wild Zebra



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just moving a little closer to campus. Not because I'm going to school, but because I want to be closer to the bar Cool Smile Nah its just cheaper. You'll have to give me alittle time. I got it from the library I can renew it for alittle longer.
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