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toppobrillo
Joined: Dec 10, 2005 Posts: 766 Location: oakland, ca
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:48 pm Post subject:
First soundmaker story and the discovery of the wp-20 [long] Subject description: - inspired by reading WSG posts- |
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like alot of people, my first attempt at building a sound-maker involved a trip to radio shack, a 555 and a forest mims mini-engineer's note-book [i still have it].
the salesclerk was completely clueless [no-kidding] i knew absolutely no-one with any knowledge whatsoever about electronics, and this was before i [or anybody i knew] had any access to or knew really anything about the internet.
i didn't understand anything about electronics really, couldn't follow circuits, let alone a bunch of circuits working together... i really just wanted to make electronic sounds. well needless to say, the 555 astable left much to be desired. so i went to the library.
i found 'the beginner's book of electronic music' by delton horn.
this book really put things in perspective for me.. it was very "math-lite", and obviously geared to the interest of the sound-person, which was very cool.
i had a breadboard at this point and i began to prototype cicuits i would find in books. i got '49 easy electronic projects for transconductance and norton op-amps' by delton horn. this introduced me to the 3900 and the 13600. cool stuff.
i got access to the internet. i got alot of schematics this way. i really wanted to do as much as i possibly could with as little $$$ as i could.
a modular synthesizer was just too much of a project to start, i thought, in terms of money and time and even space, which i had veerrrry little of.
i wanted to make a small, portable but capable box that could be easily powered by battery.
this led me to ray wilson's old website when i did a search once for 'mini-synth' on google. this was i think 2002??
this was of course before the soundlab, so this 'mini-synth' i found was the WP-20. i thought it was really amazing that this guy was so generous in sharing his stuff like that. so i was then set on building this WP-20.. and did so on a strip-board but with 2 VCOs, 2 LFOs, and 2 EGs. it was half strip-board and half bread-board for a long time and very messy with wires all over, hard to get to stuff etc. i was determining my front panel layout based on the functionality of things.. [i ended up making it into a CD case sized wooden box, with a better LFO i designed with TL064]
during this time i also designed a PCB layout for the 2 VCOs, 2 LFOs, and 2 EGs WP-20, in case i would build another, more easily. this was only my 2nd or 3rd PCB design ever, and i guess i was afraid of any angle other than 90 degrees [haha]. i never actually built one from this layout, so cannot be 100% sure it's all correct, but i am 99.5%.
so, if there are those who are interested, i will share this layout with y'all.
the PCB measures 3.5 x 6" and all I/O wires are handled by 12-pin headers positioned around the outer edges of the board.
its cool for sure, but for the money, i guess, why not build a soundlab?
i can put it on here, if there is interest, but i don't want to see it up on ebay selling for $500, unless ray and i get a cut haha!
[that's a whole other topic]
josh |
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Wild Zebra
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:37 am Post subject:
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Hell yeh you should post it!!. I already built a Sound Lab, but I still want to make a WP-20 so I can sell it on ebay SYKE!! I can only speak for myself, but I have put to much time and energy and just, wel,l love my noise gadgets so much I could never get rid of them. Unless and only unless I was in some serious dire straights. Well welcome to the site and I'm sure you'll enjoy your stay here.
I'm still asuper novice I'll have to see if my local library has those books _________________ "your stripes are killer bro" |
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toppobrillo
Joined: Dec 10, 2005 Posts: 766 Location: oakland, ca
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject:
books- check em out! |
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hey yeah i guess it's always a good idea to go to the library .. though the university's engineering lib will have much much more.
that delton horn guy has written quite a few books published by TAB. one i have been looking for for a while is called "music synthesizers: a manual of design and construction" i have seen this on ebay for ALOT of $$ and, of course, you don't know exactly what you're getting out of it.. but it seems like you can always pick up something useful.
his books [maybe all TAB books?] seem to have alot of errors in them, for being what they are, technical books, but i think most are pretty easy to sort. [i think] and most circuits he presents are really simple ones also.
i go look for books whenever i can, and buy some off ebay. by the way its cool those thomas henry books are coming back.
i wish i had a scanner, i would definitely scan some of these circuits and put them up online somewhere. maybe my 'webcam' will do for some of them, or, perhaps, they could stand to be redrawn... |
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Wild Zebra
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:09 am Post subject:
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I ordered some books from the library and the one you are talking about is one of them. Maybe when I get it I'll scan the TOC. If anything interests you I can try and upload it. _________________ "your stripes are killer bro" |
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toppobrillo
Joined: Dec 10, 2005 Posts: 766 Location: oakland, ca
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:55 am Post subject:
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here is the bookcover of this one, the table of contents [hard to read sorry] collage of sample illustrations inside. [check the patch-cord holder "nailed to wall".. "wall" haha pretty funny]
but yeah it's very basic and discusses [as you may or may not be able to see exactly] everything from our ears, to improvisation, tape splicing, "is the avant-garde a dead end?" etc. [heheh] basic components, controllers, commercially available systems [1982] etc. some nice appendix material too. including manufacturers [a/da, aries, arp, blacet, casheab, casio, crumar, curtis electromusic specialties..] a discography, bibliography etc.
cool yeah id love to see some stuff out of that book. did you order it from another branch or saomething? you are in ohio? have you ever been over to oberlin? they have a good electronic music thing i hear.
anyways.. yeah im having alittle difficulty getting this WP-20 pcb to come out of the software i used to make it correctly. it is a 'demo' so i can't export the .pcb files , i have to do a 'printscreen' but since the pcb design is so big, the resolution at which i can get it all like that is not very good. i usually do it at 2x size, then shrink it. so i may have to just do it in segments and put them together in paint or something. hmm. ill let you know.
josh
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Wild Zebra
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:56 am Post subject:
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Quote: | did you order it from another branch or saomething |
Yep, I just go online to Columbus Metro Library and they send it to the branch I go to. Haven't been to Oberlin. Got anymore info. Where are you from? Hoping the books arrived today. Keep you posted. Good luck on the pcb's. I look forward to it. I just downloaded Express PCB as I am still a total novice, but I figured its about time I try and learn alittle more about Schem to pcb and just about anything else.
til later _________________ "your stripes are killer bro" |
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toppobrillo
Joined: Dec 10, 2005 Posts: 766 Location: oakland, ca
G2 patch files: 1
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Wild Zebra
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Ohio
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:29 am Post subject:
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Hmmmm, nice. Express PCB didn't exactly work how I thought. I thought you designed the schem and then I thought I could open up PCB and it would open up all the components with the traces connected and then I could drag the components to where I wanted and arrange the traces. You know, do most of the work for me so I could get a better Idea of how its done. Well back to the drawing board. _________________ "your stripes are killer bro" |
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Macaba
Joined: Jul 13, 2005 Posts: 160 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:59 am Post subject:
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Wild Zebra wrote: | Hmmmm, nice. Express PCB didn't exactly work how I thought. I thought you designed the schem and then I thought I could open up PCB and it would open up all the components with the traces connected and then I could drag the components to where I wanted and arrange the traces. You know, do most of the work for me so I could get a better Idea of how its done. Well back to the drawing board. |
Software that does this is the PROTEUS PRO pcb design suite, you draw your schematic in ISIS then the net list is transferred to ARES where when you start a trace, it shows you which pins the trace needs to end up. Very clever.
http://www.labcenter.co.uk
You can get a demo of the professional version here:
http://www.labcenter.co.uk/download/prodemo_download.htm#professional
It does not allow saving or printing. So you are really limited to simple designs that fit on the screen so you can screen shot it to paint, etc. At least, this is what you can legally do.
Its really very nice software, easily my favorate PCB design package. Shame about the price, but the demo fulfils my need, and if i need bigger, then I can do it at college where they have full version. |
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opg
Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 954 Location: Berkeley, CA, US
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:32 am Post subject:
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Wouldn't it be cool to have a program that actually created the sounds (other than just the PC speaker buzzer) that would be made by the components you arrange? Does this exist? |
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Macaba
Joined: Jul 13, 2005 Posts: 160 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:48 am Post subject:
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Indeed, ISIS simulates the circuit you build, using SPICE, and you can connect a virtual oscilloscope to the circuit and see the waveform. But i'm afraid this can't be sent to the sound card.
PICTURE:
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Wild Zebra
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Ohio
Audio files: 5
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:41 am Post subject:
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Hey tahnks Macaba. What about Eagle PCB. I have not installed the demo yet, but it looks like it has auto-router _________________ "your stripes are killer bro" |
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opg
Joined: Mar 29, 2004 Posts: 954 Location: Berkeley, CA, US
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:59 am Post subject:
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Macaba wrote: | Indeed, ISIS simulates the circuit you build, using SPICE, and you can connect a virtual oscilloscope to the circuit and see the waveform. But i'm afraid this can't be sent to the sound card.
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Seems like it would be somewhat easy, but the software designers probably felt that this wouldn't a big priority out of all the non-music users of the programs. |
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jksuperstar
Joined: Aug 20, 2004 Posts: 2503 Location: Denver
Audio files: 1
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:27 pm Post subject:
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That would be cool to have a circuit simulator (like SPICE or ISIS) that would be like an analog simulator but be a VST (, LADSPA, AU) plugin. Eventually, as PC's got faster and programmer's get less resourceful, I think this will happen (or has under the hood somewhere!). |
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toppobrillo
Joined: Dec 10, 2005 Posts: 766 Location: oakland, ca
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Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:24 am Post subject:
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hey did you ever get that book? is it any count?
did i not spend $75 wisely?
josh |
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Wild Zebra
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:59 am Post subject:
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Yes, I did get it. Are you saying you bought it? I was hoping you would hold off. I could have scanned sections you wanted. I haven't had the time to really look at it. I'm in the process of moving. _________________ "your stripes are killer bro" |
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toppobrillo
Joined: Dec 10, 2005 Posts: 766 Location: oakland, ca
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:31 pm Post subject:
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nono i was saying i did not buy. cool. im interested to see that stuff. moving huh where to?
josh |
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v-un-v
Janitor
Joined: May 16, 2005 Posts: 8933 Location: Birmingham, England, UK
Audio files: 11
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:40 am Post subject:
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Don't forget that there is also Eagle-CAD which if you are designing small boards- is free, works on Windows, Linux, OSX and includes an autorouter.
http://www.cadsoft.de/info.htm _________________ ACHTUNG!
ALLES TURISTEN UND NONTEKNISCHEN LOOKENPEEPERS!
DAS KOMPUTERMASCHINE IST NICHT FÜR DER GEFINGERPOKEN UND MITTENGRABEN! ODERWISE IST EASY TO SCHNAPPEN DER SPRINGENWERK, BLOWENFUSEN UND POPPENCORKEN MIT SPITZENSPARKSEN.
IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
ZO RELAXEN UND WATSCHEN DER BLINKENLICHTEN. |
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Wild Zebra
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Ohio
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Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:22 am Post subject:
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Just moving a little closer to campus. Not because I'm going to school, but because I want to be closer to the bar Nah its just cheaper. You'll have to give me alittle time. I got it from the library I can renew it for alittle longer. _________________ "your stripes are killer bro" |
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