minimum laptop requirements for Ableton Live?

[barney]

I am planning on doing a few live sets using ableton and a couple of midi controllers (Korg Micro control & Behringer BCR2000), so i am going to buy a laptop...

my CPU at home is 2.something Ghz, 1GB ram... its a Celeron 64bit somethingorother, with an M-Audio Audiophile 24/96 sound card.

My biggest problem (or course) is the CPU usage overloading in Ableton, but i'm not exactly sure which aspect/s of my system are relevant to this... is my ram being wasted within ableton if i don't have clips in "ram mode"? or is it helping keep the cpu usage low?


Basically, i just want to know where my money should go into with this laptop... should i get loads of ram? what CPU speed should i be looking at? etc etc... i have already looked into the soundcard issue, now i just need to know what specs i should be looking at for the lappy in order to have Ableton playing reliably without wasting my money on stuff that wont help.


thanks guys

-Barney

[jksuperstar]

My recommendations for a "Live" laptop:

1.) PLENTY of COOLING. If the laptop you ultimately choose runs hot, get EXTRA COOLING. I can't stress this. If you're laptop runs hot, it will slow the processor down, and will definitely shorten the life of it. ANd if it slows down during a show, do you really want drop outs in your live set?

2.) 1GB of RAM. 2GB if you can afford it and will be running lots of samples. THe more you can run in "RAM" mode, the less the system has to make accesses to slower components like disk drives, and the less work it takes to play those samples...so ultimately, it does save CPU %, but can also improve latency and system responsiveness.

3.) Try your damndest (sp?) to get a laptop that has a video system with it's own RAM. Many of the latest offerings with hyper cache, etc, can act like a hybrid dedicated RAM/system RAM. These aren't that bad(it's what my system uses), but definitely avoid systems that have only shared RAM. This means the video card uses your system RAM and that means VERY poor performance, regardless of how fast your processor is.

4.) When you first get it, create a new hardware profile, and disable EVERYTHING that's not in use during audio sessions. You'll have to reboot & choose this mde when making music, vs. web surfing and game playing, but it's worth it. Things to disable are ethernet and wireless, extra usb/IEEE1394, harddrives, onboard sound, and anything else like security and other software packages that aren't needed to make music. Absolutely turn off any anti-virus for this profile. It reduces IRQs, and releases your CPU & OS from stopping to check on these functions even when they aren't used.

5.) Try for a dual core. It's the future, and most apps, including ableton (this fall), will be re-coded to take advantage of them. This probably will land you in the 1.8 - 2.5 GHz category. PLENTY of power for the app and lots of VSTs.

6.) Last but not least - Install FSAutoStart (google it), learn how to use it, and always run it before doing your live session. This utility allows you to turn off certain software, drivers, and system utilities while your program runs. THen will restart them after your done, if you so desire. Which frees memory and allows more CPU cycles to do what you want them to do (make music). One BIG thing I turn off is explorer -- you'll loose your desktop and nice clock and "start" button, temporarily, but you'll gain 36MB of memory, and one of M$'s biggest CPU hogs. You can have FSautostart do this, or try it right now for yourself -- CTRL-ALT-DEL, Task Manager -> Processes, then right-click and stop the explorer process. You can CTRL-ALT-DEL, Task Manager, and at the bottom of "applications" tab, you can start a New Task... and type explorer to bring it back.

That should get you a good system, and get you the most out of it!

[v-un-v]

[cebec]

I'm very happy with my new MacBook. So much so that I'm switching, indefinitely.

The only thing it's missing that jk recommends is dedicated graphics RAM but that's probably not a deal breaker.

Yes, definitely get a Centrino Duo-based laptop, though.

[v-un-v]

[jksuperstar]

It's not a memory-available issue, it's the fact that the video card is slamming the memory and using it's bandwidth...which WILL starve the CPU if you start pushing it's % higher (I'm not talking about 50%+ either).

These laptop designs are for business folks that use software that once ran on 100MHz laptops. They have fewer components and are cheaper to make. Having dedicated Video RAM (VRAM), will make a noticeable difference in an audio system whether it's a PC, MAC, or Linux (I dual boot my laptops to XP and Linux variants all the time). Windows and Linux will also "expand" the video memory based on the total amount available...but it's only necessary when you're rendering large graphics with lots of textures, as in a game or rotating CAD pictures.

My current laptop is the Sony SZ120P, which actually has 2 video systems -- one is the Intel built-in type, the SAME one that you'll find in the new macintels. In fact, it's the same complete chipset (centrino 1.83GHz). But, I also have an Nvidia 7500 GO, which uses a PCI-xpress port and has 128MB of VRAM that gets expanded in user RAM if necessary .. like playing heavy graphics games, or during most of my audio use, it doesn't show up using any of my resources. So, I can boot with the intel & get 6 hours of battery life, or boot into nvidia and get 2.5 hours of graphics heaven. To me, that's ideal.

[Antimon]

I use Ableton Live on a MacBook Pro, and I'm not completely comfortable with it. I recently tried to midi out to my Nord Modular classic while running an editor for it, and there are occasional jumps in the timing, and lost notes. Also, Live gets confused when I plug in a BCR2000 and a Korg MicroKontrol at the same times via USB, and decides after a while to ignore both controllers. Granted, I haven't turned of networking or other stuff.

/Stefan Blixt

[cebec]

hmm, Live 5.2 is universal binary, right? maybe once v. 6 comes out and utilizes both cores, your problems will go away. are you running in 'best performance' energy saving mode?

[Antimon]

[cebec]

i could be wrong, but i think it might scale the processor speed rather than maintaining it at it's maximum speed.

[barney]

thanks for the info guys

jksuperstar- thanks for such a comprehensive rundown, and for bringing the video card issue to my attention...

v-un-v- i have many friends who use macs and swear by them, but unfortunately i am not adventurous enough to spend a lot of money on one-simply because it is not what i am farmiliar with- better the devil you know.. or something like that hehe... i know my pc will screw me over, but at least i am used to the various techniques it uses to shaft me

anyway, its getting to crunch time and i really need to buy this thing, but (as always) i am on a pretty tight budget, so...

can anyone suggest a "minimum requirements" type setup here which will not send me broke?



thanks guys

-barney

[Kassen]

Depends... Live doesn't nesicarily need a lot of RAM for example but you might want to use VST's that do?

It would all depend... If your set is relatively minimal (with regard to the amount of tracks and plugins) you might be able to get by with a cheaper laptop but invest the savings in a better soundcard. Good soundcards realy make a difference in how it'll come across as well as in system stability. Internal soundcards are meant for system bleeps, *not* for playing music loud.

Also; keep in mind that generally laptops are used for a longer period thendesktops, much like Apples are in use longer then IBM-compatibles. I suspect both things are caused by the higher price but it's something to keep in mind.

I would place the minimum at a Pentium M 2GHz with a gig of ram and try to get a 5400RPM HD because Live streams a lot. To me PCMCIA-based soundcards make a lot of sense but these days not all laptops have them (and the newer Mac's seem to lack them in general for some reason?). It might be good to cosidder wether you'll want one or might upgrade to one in the future.

[Kassen]

[elektro80]

My Macbook ( the MB, not the MBP ) has a graphics card that leeches on the system RAM. So far this has not been a problem at all. Logic Pro is running smoothly and the only "problem" so far is that I haven´t yet swapped the 80 gig 5400 rpm SATA drive with a larger 7200 rpm drive.

[Kassen]

Well, clearly it need not be a problem; this stuff is mainly aimed at games and those push everything (CPU, memory, GPU, etc).

I suspect that the issue in many laptops might actually be related to slower system buses and not on the ram usage itself. Stuff like Live or logic shouldn't be a problem since they aren't that graphically intense.

Interestingly some Live users reported big problems with glitches when quickly zooming in and out on a wave or view though.

On disks; I think IBM started offering 7200 drives with laptops, we could hope this is the start of a trend...

[jksuperstar]

I don't mix lots of tracks (32+) in real time, nor do I have lots of inputs in realtime. I find external firewire drives to be a much less expensive and worthwhile investment, over an outright replacement of my laptop's drive. I've personally measured firewire to support 36MB/s sustained when it was the only device on the chain.

[lucastobrazil]

jksuperstar you are my hero! just one more question regarding soundcards.... i want to have both midi in and out (possibly 2 sets?) and perhaps even guitar leads going in and out, is an MBox 2 worth getting? i dont think they ahve midi? any recommendations?

thanks thanks
lucas
http://www.myspace.com/lucasarundell