An ever changing evolving entity of sound always on

[Zoogoo]

An ever changing and evolving entity of sound (technical and theoretic explanation)

The idea is; some how creating machines that will produce an eternity of sound that is always different. No more albums or songs! It will be a machine you must fuel and modify. Once you turn it on it will do what you built it to do. There are enough VST’s and LFO’s to make this all possible. What it really comes down to is computing power. The reason this does not exist is because there is not enough processing power. We definitely got the storage and memory, but we need a faster CPU.
We are at a point where this idea is already happening. If I am a human and coming to this realization, others are also all ready in the process of creating this very wonderful possible thing. You might just say it’s a bunch of noise, but it is not! It is everything you ever hear and more. Programming is so easy and you don’t have to learn codes or anything. It’s on a time frame and a loop. When you have so many manipulations happening at once, all the knobs will never line up in the exact same spot. Think of the possibilities! Your music project is a live broadcast that is always streaming this continues sound, and you manipulate it any time. Perhaps 5 minutes of manipulation will change the alga rhythms for days. What if others could log on and do there own type of manipulation. Sound will be an ultimate form of communication between peoples emotion over the net.

One example is: I took a VST called “
GURU” (which is a state of the art drum sampler) and I spent a great deal of time creating several patterns and sample set ups. The patterns were complex and intricate enough to place the midi Data on separate samples. I took the MIDI sequence from Engine one (which contains 16 samples), and I placed it on another engine and this gave me a whole new array of sound. So the first point to this idea is setting up a very large quantity of different drum patterns and sequences; meaning, you create several projects that contain significantly different samples and patterns.


NOTE:
This may be very hard to achieve for most people I think, because a lot of people are repetitive with there work; yet if it crosses your mind to use different sound sources and build up a very large loop and sample library, it becomes very easy to make significantly different sound. For all you downloader’s out there, please take advantage of all the different types of sample packs to acquire. There are many packs to buy and share.



Once you create an array of drum sample projects, you can open them up all at once in a host; because quantity is irrelevant with software. We could theoretically open up millions of hosts with millions of VST’s (which is not that far around the corner). What I did was I opened up 2 Guru’s in EnergyXT and I started attaching LFO vsts to all the CC parameters in these drum samplers. The beauty of LFO’s is that they always will move in a pattern (similar to our brain wave frequencies!). They are perfect in the sense that; they will always move in a symmetrical speed. Once I turned the sampler on, I was astounding from the start. Since most of the parameter changes that were being effected by the LFO’s was volume, it sounded like it was breathing the beets. The more I turned the speeds up on the lfo’s the more impact happened.
So I would create sequences in guru that were way too loud, and once I hooked the lfo’s up to the volumes of the samples, the levels were just right. Now this whole experiment was amazing by itself. This was an intimidating discovery that got me thinking a lot. Now what I explained was a very simple concept. Imagine all the possibilities when you throw in audio and midi effects into the picture. It is more than that as well. Imagine whole sets lined up and running.
With electronic music, we will create a song based upon audio and midi data and then we render it to WAV so we can distribute that portion of the set. What if that song (or set) you have created could evolve? That set is just one of the building blocks to creating this entity. I am positive that most artist distribute like only 5-20% of what sounds and songs they have created. If a project is not good enough to be a song, then it will be useful in producing this entity.
The great thing about this whole thing is, everyone has a different preference to what sounds good or bad, so there will be so much streaming on the net, that we can pick and choose what sounds we want, and we can even do minor and easy manipulations to get other peoples sound to sound to our liking.
A lot of these thoughts I have described are indeed idealistic, and I know that; yet there is some truth to a few of these points I have poked at. This will happen and it is all up to us to make it happen.

Most musicians are not so good at making music. People who are even technically skilled at all aspects of sound electronics are incapable of making good songs. It is a type of food chain. What I believe is: Every one of you out there is wonderful in your own special way, and we all have at least one little increment of uniqueness that is different from anyone else. Successful artist are really just people who put all aspect of creating sound and structure into a perfect form; so really they basically worked alone. What if we all connected and worked peace by peace to put together something that is beyond the concept of songs? If we use all valuable resources (people’s increments of sound) then we may be able to create something new and amazing.
It is well known that artist isolate themselves because no one has any idea what they experience. This is a hard hurtle to get over before we start working together.

On a positive note:

We are already working together! The relationship of the programmers and the musicians has become a beautiful thing. VST’s are a metaphor for individuality and unity of intelligence.



We beings are coming together finally. Late at night when you’re lonely and depressed you can log on to find someone else in the same state of mind and collaborate in violent noise. We will make love to each other in a new way. Expressing things from hate to sexuality will be prominent in this new world of communication and language. How amazing are we? Its time people take a baseball bat to there fucking TV’s and log on to express one’s self.
This idea is new, and I am honored to put full effort into this to make it a reality. Science and the “actual happening” are mostly based on a dream or imagination. Humans are so amazing that we can create what we think. What’s next?
Selfishness of hording short increments of sound is wrong and pathetic. Touring the world dispersing this same range of frequency constantly is hurting the race of intelligence; I am referring to fucking rock bands that play the same thing over and over and over and over again and hyping it up to make it more than it really is.
This idea is not a delusion and is technically possible. The ever changing flow of significantly different sound that evolves and breaths like a biological creature is no delusion, because I will explain it on the technical aspect as well as my own experiences.



As musicians and engineers it is important to share our discoveries to each other to get the progression of sound, and this is why I am writing this in the first place. I could of bottled up this useful information for myself hoping I will create something great and I will be looked at as significant or a geniuses( every arts wet dream). It seems more important to share and inspire each other. We are all special because we have something beautiful inside us that is far beyond explanation, but we are not equals because most people live there lives in denial that they are far more incredible and amazing then the pattern they subjected there life too. If you want to look at it from a spiritual view (Karma) by sharing we enlighten others which are a good thing and it creates a chain reaction of human connection. Selfishness is what will make an artist live a lonely and painful life. Even if a musician is able to create something and get famous for it, it could be a curse because he did something extraordinary and left everyone behind. Honestly, I would much rather live in a society where each artist is extraordinary. Of course this will never happen, but the concept of sharing is something that is more existent in the world of the net.

For those of you that see the significant of what I discovered, please talk back.
Sharing is the best free thing.

http://zoogoo.lycanthropyrecords.com/
Last edited by Zoogoo on Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

[blue hell]

Ah "noodles" ... I do like noodles, or "generative music" as others call it. And I see the significance of it as well, in fact it's "the future" of music I think (which does not mean I'd want to loose the past, so maybe "a future" would be better).

Interesting post for sure, maybe this should be moved to composition.

I'll re-read tomorrow. Sorry for such a short answer on such a long post (but it's 7 in the morning & must sleep now).

[Yorky]

"Its time people take a baseball bat to there fucking TV’s and log on to express one’s self"

You are watching the new TV right now

[Oskar]

[blue hell]

[Oskar]

[jksuperstar]

Maybe the Jomox Resonator Neuronium is what you're after?
http://www.jomox.de/

I disagree about several points- 1. that we need more computing power. You started off using Guru, an already heavy CPU % application, just to do drums. I don't think you have to shoe-horn the generative & evolving nature of sound generation into large applications only.
2. I don't think any popular artist has anything to do with perfecting the art. They are either targeting a popular theme that has already proven successful, or got lucky that what they created has resonated with many people and now lots of people know of them. I don't particularly equate numbers of people (popularity) with importance or success. Or necessarily believe they had to do it themselves.
3. There are quite a few forms of this out there: There was once a project based on a little Analog Devices DSP board, I think it was called DSPerado . It's intent was to be a new form of distribution of music, on the generator itself, rather than a recorded medium. That way you can distribute songs, or noodles as we call them here, or even allow the user to modify your song.

However, I do think, especially with new understandings of DNA and genetics, and our own nature to copy what we see or understand, that this is a blooming source of music.

[Zoogoo]

Well the beauty of this whole idea is; everyone will stream a continuous music set online. If we have 100's of people dispersing sounds at once, and we have access to those sounds on separate channels, then it is a growing entity that will never stop. You could be listing to someones sound and you can manipulate it the way you want and put it back out on the net!. plus one person can run several channels of sound at once. So basically its a free buffet of sound. Its always on and always changing. Think of this entity as "Godhead".
Our computers have more than enough cpu to process sound continuously with evolving shapes and forms. Yes by rinning a substantial amount of plugins like GURU will hog up all the power; yet it does not matter because its not just one person creating this entity.

What is this Noodles you speak of? Is it a definition for what i am talking about?

[elektro80]

[ian-s]

I think a member developed something like this a year or two ago. On line, evolving, collaborative. He was asking for suggestions and feedback as I recall.
I wonder what happened to that project?

[Zoogoo]

I think you are missing the point here. This is not to "get your music out there". This is about something that is always on and always running. Perhaps off a server. its Basically one host with an unlimited # of channel slots for people to attach there sound too. The idea is that this thing will never turn off. Its one enitial machine that is being manipulated by anyone who uses it( technically its just a bunch of people connected to each other streaming sound back and forth). The way this will work will be the corroperation of dedicated musicians who would like to participate. I am not a programmer, but i do know some kind of online orginization could bring this all together. The closest thing i have to be able to do this is:

http://www.digitalmusician.net/

the problem with this is, it cost money to really set up something good. Its free but you get crappy sound bit streaming.

I have not yet seen anytime of program or orginization that will do what i have described.
Its not about songs and structured music. Its about everyone fueling an ongoing entity of sound.

An entity is something that has a distinct, separate existence, though it need not be a material existence.
Its is always there and can only be recognized by the sound.
I really believe once its up and running, that it will be only a mater of time before it starts to turn into something big.

We are working so hard on to make a lot of little increments of sound for a small portion of pleasure.
What if all this hard work went into one place!

No one yet has given me any indication that you see the main point.

This is something that does not exist yet. And we have more than enough technology and orginiziation to make this happen.

Basically this is a call out to anyone who could help me with this.
This is not for me, its for US USUSUSUSUSUSUSUSUSUSUS

[elektro80]

Oh, i do think I see what you mean. You are proposing some kind of collab art project based on audio/performance streams. That is great.
There have been many collaborative projects based on similar ideas. Some have even been semi-commercial. Main problem is latency, bandwidth and total cost ( of the programming, hardware and bandwidth in the server end and bandwidth in the client end ).
It is almost possible to set up small systems that work nearly OK, but these won´t scale too well.

20+ channels at near real CD quality audio with interaction and your change stream/process stream and upload new stream functionality .. and still keeping crosschannel latency near anything useable for making music is hard. You can however almost do this on a LAN using gigabit ethernet. Logic Pro ( DAW software for OS X) has something of the sort ( including network clients ). Making this work across WAN links is really something else.

As for noodles and self generating systems, it is quite possible to set up remote controlling of parameters over TCP/IP. You listen to a noodle and you get an interface for changing certain parameters. You make a change and the stream changes. However, latency is still a problem of sorts if you want to play with others using such a rig in this way.

[blue hell]

[elektro80]

It can be argued that "why is this a problem... I can watch HD trailers off Apple´s quicktime site". Well, yes.. but what you are proposing is really complex and will hit on several problems with WAN networking that we won´t really see a solution to for years to come. That being said, the WAN bit isn´t the only problem.

[Zoogoo]

Yeah,
Its sad that this idea wont happen tomorrow, but it is not that far a way until these minor issues will be solved by the expediential rate of technological improvement.

[kijjaz]

I expect to see this kind of toy also.
but i actually wanna see it in 'games'..
hmm.. say... musician's multiplayer online game..
that'd create a dynamic & changing music according to the virtual world.

i guess something RPG'd be fun.
what do you all think?

hahha... and now i really enjoy the ADOM.. roguelike game
i just love the feel of the world that way.
i'd like to see a musical world like that dynamic game.

[Antimon]