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fonik
Joined: Jun 07, 2006
Posts: 3950
Location: Germany
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 Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:59 am Post subject:
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| softfin wrote: | I finally bite the bullet and designed a panel for my Klee. 
I used Fonik's panel layout as a starting point and modified it quite a bit to better suit my tastes (bigger sliders).
The price estimate for the panel was a positive surprise: it will probably cost only a little more than 100eur  |
very nice. and i must say i am very happy with my design, too.
however i recommended to mount the sliders the KRUNKUS STYLE TM! i wished i had...
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softfin
Joined: Oct 11, 2006
Posts: 271
Location: Far in the north
Audio files: 1
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:35 am Post subject:
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| fonik wrote: |
however i recommended to mount the sliders the KRUNKUS STYLE TM! i wished i had... |
The Krunkus method looks convenient, definately worth keeping in mind when mounting the sliders.
Thanks for the tip, Fonik |
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Luka
Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: Melb.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject:
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ryk i purchased all my switches from HKSS. they were reasonably cheap, in fact for around 200 i dont think i spent over 80$. thanks for kind words.
ill post some pictures of my whole rack soon.
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melbourne australia
http://cycleofproblems.blogspot.com/
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject:
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| Luka wrote: | ryk i purchased all my switches from HKSS. they were reasonably cheap, in fact for around 200 i dont think i spent over 80$. thanks for kind words.
ill post some pictures of my whole rack soon. |
Mucho excellent! I'll go hunt him down again. I had gotten my bag of 1,000 9mm stem pushbutton switches from him for $25. Was very happy about that. |
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sduck
Joined: Dec 16, 2007
Posts: 459
Location: Nashville
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject:
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So I finally finished my klee, and am happily playing with it. Took a few pics before locking it down in the cabinet - it already got matrixsynthed, but thought i'd post them here too for posterity.
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005
Posts: 4127
Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject:
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My, yes...I saw this on MatrixSynth earlier today, and suitably drooled
Very nice work! When are you going to do mine? 
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andrewF
Joined: Dec 29, 2006
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Location: australia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:10 am Post subject:
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My second Klee panel is complete...just the wiring to do and waiting for some ICs to arrive.
This is my 'EMsyn', as nearly all the boards came from electro-music in one way or another.
http://www.sdiy.org/pinky/emsyn/emsyn.html
oh yeh - mostly made out of junk and scrap as usual (except for the PCBs)
hence the nicely matching pots and switches |
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Rykhaard
Joined: Sep 02, 2007
Posts: 1290
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:31 am Post subject:
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Cool to see a panel from someone else with artwork on it! 2 people in the background with medical equipment??  I'd completely forgotten that you've done this before. Ooops. Duh.
I love my 4 done, so much, I decided a couple of weeks ago that I'm going to draw artwork now for all of mine. Only another 15-20 to go.  |
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Luka
Joined: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: Melb.
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andrewF
Joined: Dec 29, 2006
Posts: 1176
Location: australia
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| Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject:
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| Rykhaard wrote: | | Cool to see a panel from someone else with artwork on it! 2 people in the background with medical equipment?? |
Once I saw photos of the Mysterious Collector's Serge a few years ago, there was no turning back.
http://www.serge-fans.com/gallery_70.html
I think the poster was originally for a Tokyo punk band, kind of a S&M electro-shock therapy session, the nurse is turning the dial up to 'kill' |
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Appliancide*
Joined: Jul 04, 2007
Posts: 126
Location: Paul lives in a 1920’s film
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject:
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Forgive me if I am asking this (possibly) stupid question in the wrong place.
Would it be possible to have a separate set of of on/off switches for each bus? It seems like that would add a lot of flexibility to the klee (as well as a bunch of other sequencers).
Thanks for reading. |
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Uncle Krunkus
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Joined: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 4761
Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
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| Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject:
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Yes,
You could conceivably add many more gate bus switch banks. Each would need the 1->16 step outputs multipled from the standard set, and then run the output through a similar CD10106/CD4093/LM324 conditioning circuit.
It's easy to tap into the step outputs and setup extra gate buses as add on units, as they exit the boards as discrete connectors which can be multipled. There are a number of other logic conditions that could be applied as well. For example, Gate bus 2 currently outputs events when neither 1 NOR 3 do. You could change this to 1 OR 3, 1 AND 3, XOR etc.
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plord
Joined: Dec 15, 2007
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Scott Stites
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Joined: Dec 23, 2005
Posts: 4127
Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:48 pm Post subject:
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| Quote: | | You could change this to 1 OR 3, 1 AND 3, XOR etc. |
You could get the most bang for your buck (and space) by adding a single CD4070 quad XOR.
XOR gates are rather like programable inverters. You use one input for signal in and one input for Invert/Non-Invert.
Say you the output of gate bus 1 (before the triggers and gate circuits) to the input of an XOR gate. You put +V or 0V on a switch feeding the other input. If you set the switch to 0V, the gate bus works as normal. If you set the switch to +V, the gate bus is inverted. You could do this for all three gate busses - three switches that invert the gates or not.
The remaining XOR gate from the package would create a unique bus output. I'd suggest putting Gate Bus 1 to one input and Gate Bus 3 to the other input. Then you'd have the XORed product, which would be unique that could be applied to a fourth gate bus out.
So, one IC: All three gate busses could be inverted individually, plus one unique gate bus output.
The XOR gate could either be switched in and out with Gate Bus 2, or you could put in the stuff to create the gates and triggers and have a fully independent output, a second "Logical Gate Bus" as it were (after all, gate bus 2 is a logical NOR gate bus that emulates a hardware gate bus with one bit patterns).
An XOR gate bus *would* be cool, BTW. Right now, Gate Bus 2 outputs will always sound "alone", because it only becomes active when the other two are both inactive. With an extra XOR gate bus, gate bus 2 would have a new companion.
Cheerios,
Scott
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Appliancide*
Joined: Jul 04, 2007
Posts: 126
Location: Paul lives in a 1920’s film
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| Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:37 am Post subject:
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| Scott Stites wrote: | | Quote: | | You could change this to 1 OR 3, 1 AND 3, XOR etc. |
You could get the most bang for your buck (and space) by adding a single CD4070 quad XOR.
XOR gates are rather like programable inverters. You use one input for signal in and one input for Invert/Non-Invert.
Say you the output of gate bus 1 (before the triggers and gate circuits) to the input of an XOR gate. You put +V or 0V on a switch feeding the other input. If you set the switch to 0V, the gate bus works as normal. If you set the switch to +V, the gate bus is inverted. You could do this for all three gate busses - three switches that invert the gates or not.
The remaining XOR gate from the package would create a unique bus output. I'd suggest putting Gate Bus 1 to one input and Gate Bus 3 to the other input. Then you'd have the XORed product, which would be unique that could be applied to a fourth gate bus out.
So, one IC: All three gate busses could be inverted individually, plus one unique gate bus output.
The XOR gate could either be switched in and out with Gate Bus 2, or you could put in the stuff to create the gates and triggers and have a fully independent output, a second "Logical Gate Bus" as it were (after all, gate bus 2 is a logical NOR gate bus that emulates a hardware gate bus with one bit patterns).
An XOR gate bus *would* be cool, BTW. Right now, Gate Bus 2 outputs will always sound "alone", because it only becomes active when the other two are both inactive. With an extra XOR gate bus, gate bus 2 would have a new companion.
Cheerios,
Scott |
So I'm grokking some of this (I am very new to DIY and will be doing some simpler projects before this one), but does all this mean that I could have a gate or trigger coming from all three buses at once or only the ones I had selected? Again sorry for the newbie questions, but when I do tackle this, I want it to be as pimped out as possible, space be damned.
Paul |
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zthee
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mono-poly
Joined: Jul 07, 2004
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:17 am Post subject:
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| Damn that is the best design i have seen so far. |
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Scott Stites
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:20 am Post subject:
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Well, it's certainly a sweet looking design! Maybe you could find one of those switches that the 2500 used and convert that. Of course, it might cost more than the Klee itself......
| Quote: | | So I'm grokking some of this (I am very new to DIY and will be doing some simpler projects before this one), but does all this mean that I could have a gate or trigger coming from all three buses at once or only the ones I had selected? Again sorry for the newbie questions, but when I do tackle this, I want it to be as pimped out as possible, space be damned. |
To be honest, my head begins to swim when I try to predict what the gate bus will do, because there are a number of things that affect other things - how many switches feed a particular bus, how many bits are in the pattern, what are the other busses doing with their switches. I tried writing a document that covered it all, but it became such a twisted thing I figured it would only intimidate people (like it intimidated me!).
The best thing to do is to keep this in mind: Gate Bus 1 and Gate Bus 3 are physical gates - if a switch is set to one of them, that gate will put out any signal that comes down the switch. Gate Bus 2 is a logical gate: it really only cares about what the other two physical gates are doing. Its particular brand of logic is NOR, which means if Bus 1 NOR Bus 3 have a signal on it, then I do!! When you only have one bit in the pattern (like a regular sequencer), then this NOR function acts just like a hardware function, because if a signal is not switched to gate bus 1 or gate bus 3, it must be set to gate bus 2.
It's only when more than one bit is active that gate bus 2 begins it's journey to complexity. The physical gates provide a level of complexity because, with more than one bit active, either one, neither one, or both can be active at the same time. It just depends on where the roulette wheel of the pattern is at the time as opposed to how the bus switches are set. That's why a good Klee pattern may only need one or two switches set to a particular physical bus, with the rest set to bus 2. Bus 2 may still only fire a couple of times (or not at all during an iteration), and may suddenly spring to life as you juggle the pattern around.
So, it's really sort of a fun paper excercise to figure out what would happen if you applied specific types of logic to the two physical gates.
Ultimately, you may find out the Klee doesn't need much pimping to suck the time and life right out of you.......
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zthee
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:51 am Post subject:
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| mono-poly wrote: | | Damn that is the best design i have seen so far. |
Thanks!
Scott Stites, Thanks! I think I'll stick with tact switches and a µC that keeps them running  |
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Sound
Joined: Jun 06, 2006
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject:
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| It is really really beatiful zthee. |
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Scott Stites
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject:
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BTW, if one wants to pimp a Klee, here is something that would really knock it into orbit with barely any parts expenditure, though it would claim some more panel room.
Klee puts out A, B and A+B. Why not A-B? Or, its inverse B-A? This creates an entirely new *unique* voltage output. Here's an example of an implementation - this one uses a switch to select between A-B and B-A, and has its own glide circuit so it's uniform in control with the other voltages. Note, I think the cap would be best unpolarized, because this particular voltage would go below 0V, unlike all the rest of the Klee voltages. This voltage would follow all the rules of the A+B voltage, it just would be totally different - but yet related to all the other voltages in a very Klee-like manner.
This is one implementation, You could use a single TL072 and have both outputs simultaneous with no glide circuit, or use a TL072 for the differential amplifier and inverter, and use a TL074 to make two glide circuits, one for each output. That's if your panel is the size of a mac truck.
Believe, if I hadn't drilled my panel and had room, this would be the first thing I'd put in if I were to pimp my Klee.
Cheerios,
Scott
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zthee
Joined: Feb 20, 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject:
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| Whoha! Now I had to add 2 more outputs and an extra slider! |
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Dego
Joined: Apr 22, 2008
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject:
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Do it!  |
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Appliancide*
Joined: Jul 04, 2007
Posts: 126
Location: Paul lives in a 1920’s film
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject:
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| Scott Stites wrote: | Well, it's certainly a sweet looking design! Maybe you could find one of those switches that the 2500 used and convert that. Of course, it might cost more than the Klee itself......
| Quote: | | So I'm grokking some of this (I am very new to DIY and will be doing some simpler projects before this one), but does all this mean that I could have a gate or trigger coming from all three buses at once or only the ones I had selected? Again sorry for the newbie questions, but when I do tackle this, I want it to be as pimped out as possible, space be damned. |
To be honest, my head begins to swim when I try to predict what the gate bus will do, because there are a number of things that affect other things - how many switches feed a particular bus, how many bits are in the pattern, what are the other busses doing with their switches. I tried writing a document that covered it all, but it became such a twisted thing I figured it would only intimidate people (like it intimidated me!).
The best thing to do is to keep this in mind: Gate Bus 1 and Gate Bus 3 are physical gates - if a switch is set to one of them, that gate will put out any signal that comes down the switch. Gate Bus 2 is a logical gate: it really only cares about what the other two physical gates are doing. Its particular brand of logic is NOR, which means if Bus 1 NOR Bus 3 have a signal on it, then I do!! When you only have one bit in the pattern (like a regular sequencer), then this NOR function acts just like a hardware function, because if a signal is not switched to gate bus 1 or gate bus 3, it must be set to gate bus 2.
It's only when more than one bit is active that gate bus 2 begins it's journey to complexity. The physical gates provide a level of complexity because, with more than one bit active, either one, neither one, or both can be active at the same time. It just depends on where the roulette wheel of the pattern is at the time as opposed to how the bus switches are set. That's why a good Klee pattern may only need one or two switches set to a particular physical bus, with the rest set to bus 2. Bus 2 may still only fire a couple of times (or not at all during an iteration), and may suddenly spring to life as you juggle the pattern around.
So, it's really sort of a fun paper excercise to figure out what would happen if you applied specific types of logic to the two physical gates.
Ultimately, you may find out the Klee doesn't need much pimping to suck the time and life right out of you....... |
I suspected something like that was at work with the buses. It does make
a lot more sense to me now that you've explained it in a way I can wrap my head around. I guess it probably makes a whole lot more sense to build more gate sequencers to run in sync (or not) with the Klee.
The more I read about this thing, the more excited I get. Probably be months before I finish one, but it sounds like it will definitely be worth the wait!
Sorry to hijack the panel designs forum by the way. There is some beautiful stuff that you guys have made! |
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Luka
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