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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » NM Classic (NM1 or G1)
Balance or stereo-pan
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torsig1967



Joined: Mar 29, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:05 am    Post subject: Balance or stereo-pan
Subject description: Best way to implement this.
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I'd really need a balance or stereo-pan control to a lot af my patches, namely those who are stereo out. Patches with a stereo chorus are a typical example.

Has anyone some good idea how to implement this so it can be controlled by one single knob? I would prefer not to use morph since I almos always use all four morphs to something else.
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davep



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't have my NM1 in front of me now, just the Editor on this PC, but I made a patch that should do this.

It uses a pair of panner modules controlled by one knob. When you turn the knob, one side of a stereo signal gets louder and the other gets quieter because they each use different outputs from the two panner modules. There are other ways to do it but the Panner modules should give you proper audio taper as the knob moves. Try it and let us know if the volume behaves 'right' or if the level seems to go up & down with the knob movement. IF the panner modules don't work, there could be a similar idea that uses a pair of crossfader modules instead.


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Balance jpeg.JPG



Balance control.pch
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torsig1967



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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Excellent davep, I believe that's the most elegant and correct way to implement this. 3,3% DSP is needed. Here is a DSP-cheaper solution (1,7%) which is a a bit 'wrong' since the level feels weaker when balance is set to middle. Anyone who can improve this without adding a lot of DSP?


cheap balance.png
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Cheap balance solution.
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cheap balance.png


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blue hell
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3.2%, but untested, I dont have the Classic connected.


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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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torsig1967



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is my best bet to implement a balance control with correct curve (not like my cheap one above) and a bit less CPU (2,7%) demand.

I use a "roof function" described in another post:
http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-29188.html

It's quite ugly to look at but if CPU needs get critical it might be a better choice than davep's and Blue Hells's much more elegant solutions.


balance control2.png
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A balance control with correct curve and 2,7% CPU load.
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balance control2.png



Last edited by torsig1967 on Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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torsig1967



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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
3.2%, but untested, I dont have the Classic connected.

Quite nice. Mine says 3,1% CPU.

The "unipolar button" on the gain controls should be set to off instead, otherwise it's not possible to set balance to full left or full right.

But this one (as opposed to davep's and my 2,7% solution) behaves like my cheap (1,7%) solution above. It gets weaker in the middle. Level is lowered 6 dB on both channels when balance is middle.

This makes me a bit puzzled. Isn't balance controls supposed to lower the level of both channels in tha middle? It might be that all these are incorrect and that the correct behaviour is a mix of these two. Twisting the knobs and comparing with my DAW's balance makes me think that's the case.
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blue hell
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

torsig1967 wrote:
Level is lowered 6 dB on both channels when balance is middle.


Quote:
It might be that all these are incorrect and that the correct behaviour is a mix of these two.


It should do -3 dB on both channels in the middle IIRC, I mean to have a correct balance pot. Your figure of - 6 dB is what I remember as well. To make a correct one would be relatively expensive I'm afraid, just mixing two types will not work correct either I think.

I think this was one of the issues Rob Hordijk had with the NM as well Wink

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
I think this was one of the issues Rob Hordijk had with the NM as well Wink
And why Clavia dropped the QuadroPanner and QuadroCrossFader in the G2...

Wout
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torsig1967



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is a solution to the -3dB middle drop problem. Not very expensive; 2,6%. It can be used to achieve other values for the "middle drop" by adjusting the right rotary pots on the left middle add and right middle add control mixer modules.

While there are plenty of information on monoaural panning laws on the Internet it's hard to find any information on stereo balance laws. According to an article on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereophonic_sound#Balance, there should be no drop at all when balance is set to the middle. On the other hand a quick test on my DAW (Logic Cool and my sampler (MPC 1000) reveals a -3 dB drop when balance is set to middle.

I guess it's a matter of taste just like monoaural panning laws.


balance -3dB middle.png
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A stereo balance control where signal drops by 3 dB when balance is moved from full left or right to middle position.
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balance -3dB middle.png



balance -3dB.pch
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blue hell
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

torsig1967 wrote:
Here is a solution to the -3dB middle drop problem. Not very expensive; 2,6%.


Good work! A matter of taste ... probably Laughing it would also depend on your speaker placement / listening position I guess.

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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