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qfingers
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Tucson, AZ
G2 patch files: 2
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 Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:59 pm Post subject:
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| Version bump. Check original post for changes. |
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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1189
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 141
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:26 pm Post subject:
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Hi,
I still try to get it working on my powerbook..
Sofar i was able to launch the phyton shell and can open the script there ..
changing the first line to the outcom of the which phyton command allowed to run version 0.3...but i dont know how to tell the script which file it should convert?
I ve problems understanding:
| Quote: | A couple of things to keep in mind:
1. You need to install python for your system (www.python.org)
2. You need to run ./nm2g2.py from the directory it's installed.
./nm2g2.py patchfiles/testnm1file.pch
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how do i ve to interpretate 2. "you need to run..."
Does the g2ools folder have to be placed in the folder where the phyton launcher and ide is in?
and where do i have to use this "./nm2g2.py patchfiles/testnm1file.pch" command? Is it complete? or does the dot needs to be replaced?
However..i tried again with the g2ools 0.5 distribution and this time the phyton shell shows this when doing a "run"
>>> ================================ RESTART ================================
>>>
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/Applications/MacPython 2.4/g2ools-0.5/nm2g2.py", line 247, in -toplevel-
if sys.argv[0][0] == '-':
IndexError: list index out of range
>>>
???
can anybody tell me how this scripts are handeled in a working enviroment? you have to adress the patch to be converted somhow or?
just to run it in the shell is only for testing? or can you do the conversion by using the shell?
Its however so that g2ools 0.5 seems to have a problem with the shell applikation g2ools 0.3 dont has..
there the outcome of a "run" is just
>>> ================================ RESTART ================================
>>>
is that indicating that the program was running thru smoothly?
sorry to ask such basic questions..but because ther wont be a standalone macversion it might help others that might run into similar problems to get it working on mac.. it seems that phyton is widely used on macs aswell..so it should be possible...
regards
Sven |
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qfingers
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Tucson, AZ
G2 patch files: 2
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:34 pm Post subject:
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| 3phase wrote: | Hi,
I | Quote: | A couple of things to keep in mind:
1. You need to install python for your system (www.python.org)
2. You need to run ./nm2g2.py from the directory it's installed.
./nm2g2.py patchfiles/testnm1file.pch
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how do i ve to interpretate 2. "you need to run..."
Does the g2ools folder have to be placed in the folder where the phyton launcher and ide is in?
and where do i have to use this "./nm2g2.py patchfiles/testnm1file.pch" command? Is it complete? or does the dot needs to be replaced? |
Ok, a little Unix type tutorial for this application. After you have python installed, and the application unzipped into it's own folder (directory):
| Code: |
cd /installed-folder/g2ools-0.5
./nm2g2.py <path>
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If this doesn't work, something else is wrong. You can also try:
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python ./nm2g2.py <path>
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I'm not sure where OSX install python. Under a normal unix/linux it in /usr/bin/python or /usr/local/bin/python. In both cases, it should still work without specifying python first as in the second example.
After you execute the command it should (bugs notwithstanding), create a file in the same location as the original .pch file but with a .pch2 extension. For example if I have a file /home/pch/Basic22.pch and execute:
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python ./nm2g2.py /home/pch/Basic22.pch
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a file will be created /home/pch/Basic22.pch2 converted from the original.
Remember, it doesn't not handle Lfo Mst/Slv connections and the program will error with a message. Also knobs, morphs, and midiccs are not converted (yet).
Hope this is helpful.
q |
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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1189
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 141
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:57 am Post subject:
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Thnx..but still missing something..
the <path> ?? do i ve to replace that with the path itself or is this part of the comand itself?
Sorry bothering you... i am just currious what your app can do allready..
I ve quite a few patches that need conversion wright now...
However..earlier or later ive my blanks filled and have it running..
will do a bit net research about phyton scripts on mac...
regards
Sven |
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tombola
Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 84
Location: London
Audio files: 3
G2 patch files: 9
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:06 am Post subject:
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Thanks again qfingers - this is amazing work - and my head is spinning with the other stuff you've been talking about.
I use my G2 with an Akai MPC1000, which now has a fantastic user-written OS that has revolutionised the machine - leaving it completely independent of Akai development or support. Although in this case, it seems like like some kind of source code leak/disgrutled former employee situation made it possible.
I'm really interested in the sound differences between the two machines (because I don't have a G1) - I'd be really interested if anyone with the time/inclination could post some comparative patches - the same patches, translated with the translator, running on the two machines.
Thanks again, qfingers!
_________________
http://www.musicthing.co.uk/ |
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Afro88
Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 701
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Audio files: 12
G2 patch files: 79
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:09 am Post subject:
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Hey Sven,
<path> is just the location of your patch file, relative to the directory you're in at that moment.
To make it easy, just copy all the patches you want converted to the g2ools-0.5 directory, then you can just cd to the g2ools-0.5 directory and go:
./nm2g2.py svenspatch.pch
And a file will be created in that same directory: svenspatch.pch2 which is the converted one.
qfingers: Tried out the new version, seems to work well! Not sure if the output sounds anything like the original .pch files, but alot of the ones I've converted sound great, so it's doing something right! |
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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1189
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 141
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:57 am Post subject:
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| Afro88 wrote: | ..., then you can just cd to the g2ools-0.5 directory and go:
./nm2g2.py svenspatch.pch
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ok... i draged the nm2g2.py file on the phyton launcher...
and a console window pops up
saying this:
Last login: Wed Dec 27 12:51:07 on ttyp1
Welcome to Darwin!
e178168221:~ 3phase$ cd '/Applications/MacPython 2.4/g2ools-0.5/' && '/usr/local/bin/pythonw' '/Applications/MacPython 2.4/g2ools-0.5/nm2g2.py' && echo Exit status: $? && exit 1
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/Applications/MacPython 2.4/g2ools-0.5/nm2g2.py", line 247, in ?
if sys.argv[0][0] == '-':
IndexError: list index out of range
e178168221:/Applications/MacPython 2.4/g2ools-0.5 3phase$
typing than the command results in that:
./nm2g2.py testseq.pch-bash: ./nm2g2.py: /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/bin: bad interpreter: Permission denied
e178168221:/Applications/MacPython 2.4/g2ools-0.5 3phase$
permission denied dont sound good to me.. but at least its talking to me now 
what does the :" IndexError: list index out of range.." want to tell?
thnx for help
Sven... |
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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1189
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 141
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:03 am Post subject:
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ok..it did it  i relocated the g2ools folder ... so...now i can check how they relate to the NM 1 patches... very thrilling... |
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JLS
Joined: Nov 05, 2005
Posts: 504
Location: Czech
Audio files: 30
G2 patch files: 316
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:13 am Post subject:
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This tools is great - THANKS
I using WinXp+Python2.5 ( tools 0.5 ) - in all converted patches is inverted button on/off (percusion osc) and keyon/keyoff (osc, filter, lfo )
this bug only on me or not ? thanks info
Kamil |
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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1189
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 141
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:21 am Post subject:
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just a quick feedback... the spectral oscilator model is not patched corectly...wrong waveform and the shape modulation is not connected to the amplifikation stages...
I will do an update on the sectral osc simulation wright now and post it here a bit later... Have the oscilloscope hooked up from the 303 research... and have the the scaling tools now to get a better grip on the fm problem
i will do two versions..
one cheap but sonical alike and one that trys to be precise and gets the fm thing working as close i can get this... |
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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1189
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 141
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:38 am Post subject:
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ups ..incoming wormholes..i ve to delay that a bit...
just for quick refference.. i was wrong...the amlification stage is conected..
but the constant module replacing the shapeknob is set to bipolar instead of unipolar..
And waveform "All" is waveform No4 on the G2 shape osc ( the squarish one) while "Odd" is waveform No3..the sawish one...
with this fixes it should be being good enough in all cases where no fm is used..
I will dig into the fm problem later... The fma input on the NM1 behaves totaly differnt to the fm lin or fm trck input of the G2. |
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cappy2112
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2490
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:34 am Post subject:
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| 3phase wrote: |
ok... i draged the nm2g2.py file on the phyton launcher...
and a console window pops up
saying this:
Last login: Wed Dec 27 12:51:07 on ttyp1
Welcome to Darwin!
e178168221:~ 3phase$ cd '/Applications/MacPython 2.4/g2ools-0.5/' && '/usr/local/bin/pythonw' '/Applications/MacPython 2.4/g2ools-0.5/nm2g2.py' && echo Exit status: $? && exit 1
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "/Applications/MacPython 2.4/g2ools-0.5/nm2g2.py", line 247, in ?
if sys.argv[0][0] == '-':
IndexError: list index out of range
e178168221:/Applications/MacPython 2.4/g2ools-0.5 3phase$
typing than the command results in that:
./nm2g2.py testseq.pch-bash: ./nm2g2.py: /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/Current/bin: bad interpreter: Permission denied
e178168221:/Applications/MacPython 2.4/g2ools-0.5 3phase$
permission denied dont sound good to me.. but at least its talking to me now
what does the :" IndexError: list index out of range.." want to tell?
thnx for help
Sven... |
permission denied might mean you either have to have root access to run the script, or the script itself is not accessible.
type ls -asl ./nm2g2.py
in the directory wher ethe nm2g2.py script is located
and post the results here.
The index error means you are not passing an argument to the nm2g2.py program. The program expects that the user will pass an filename to it to convert. You can see this from all the other examples posted. Ideally, the program should catch this error and prompt the user.
Dragging it in the OSX desktop is not really the way it was intended to be used. |
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qfingers
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Tucson, AZ
G2 patch files: 2
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:16 am Post subject:
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| megerov wrote: | This tools is great - THANKS
I using WinXp+Python2.5 ( tools 0.5 ) - in all converted patches is inverted button on/off (percusion osc) and keyon/keyoff (osc, filter, lfo )
this bug only on me or not ? thanks info
Kamil |
Are you saying the KBT buttons are inverted? I.E. they should be on when they are off and off when they are on? I thought I defaulted them to on except when the Pitch connection is made, then they need to track the pitch input only. I'll look into it.
| 3phase wrote: | | And waveform "All" is waveform No4 on the G2 shape osc ( the squarish one) while "Odd" is waveform No3..the sawish one... |
The model that I used had those revered. I'll fix it. Also I'll change the constant module to Unipolar. |
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qfingers
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Tucson, AZ
G2 patch files: 2
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:47 am Post subject:
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| 3phase wrote: |
I will dig into the fm problem later... The fma input on the NM1 behaves totaly differnt to the fm lin or fm trck input of the G2. |
One thing that was missing from the NM1 documentation is how the modulation was changed across the keyboard range. Because the g2 can give you wider bandwidths for higher pitches (FMTrk) as well as a constant bandwidth (FMLin), maybe and additional module (LevAmp) used before the input if the NM1 scales it differently.
I wish I had a NM1 to here the differences. I can only go so far as to match the values as close as possible. I think because some of the parameters have wider ranges, that the modulation values will have to be tweaked as well. But this kind of thing is impossible without hearing the original patch. I'll have to rely on forum posts/patches sent to me for updates.
For those who want to get into the code, in the nord/convert directory has all the module converters organized by NM1 editor tab. Each one has several "Conv***" classes. These classes are the module converters. They are mostly sub-classed by the "Convert" class. There are "static" members defined at the top: "maing2module", "parammap", "inputmap", "outputmap". When they are present, the are handled by the converters object constructor (in the Convert class: convert.py). The "maing2module" is the module that maps closest to the NM1 module. The "parammap" member maps NM1 parameters exactly to g2 parameters. If the names are different, a list: [<g2paramname>, <nm1paramname>] is used to map the parameters. The "inputmap" and "outputmap" sets up the connects mapping from NM1 to the g2. It's order is the parameter indexes from the NM1. There is a domodule() method that does all the other work: adding modules, connections, and adjusting paramaters. This is where most of the work will be done to tweak the converter. Often times, I check for connections to various inputs and outputs and only add modules when necessary to support the convert. For example, I check for the 2 pitch modulation inputs of many NM1 patches, and only add a mixer before the pitch modulation of g2 module when both are used.
That is a quick overview of where alot of the work from now on will be done. I also created a bunch of test*.pch files that are used to test the general functionality of the converter. They are not real patches, just used to see if the connections and parameters are correct, as well as to make sure the convert doesn't die unexpectedly.
Hope this helps.
q |
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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1189
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 141
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:59 am Post subject:
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I got it working now.
for some reasons i fe to start the phyton shell once and afterwards i can just use the comandline...
Its fascinating to see how acurate the modules are placed and how far that projekt got already in such a short time..respect 8-/
I however haven't made it yet to get much of my patches converted... What is not too surprising at this state because i was pushing the NM1 pretty much to his limits with complex patches and lots of internal feedbacks...
Was even hard to get many of my patches running via handconversion... I have to look for smaller patches first because its easier to see than what is different... I ve to do more trys...
However a few problems i can mention already..
-The pch name is not allowed to have empty spaces or dots within...
But there are quite a few patches in the libary that use all naming possebilitys the Nm gives...
- on a mac the .pch ending is not always displayed.. the nm2g2 gets that they are nm1 patches nevertheless, and converts them..
but it don't puts an pch.2 ending to that converted file than..you have to do that manually..
the shelf eq module cant be translated... at least i got such an error message on a patch that wont have been translated...
so much for now..i will work a bit on the fma problem and see if i can bring something up... |
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qfingers
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Tucson, AZ
G2 patch files: 2
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:11 am Post subject:
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| 3phase wrote: | I got it working now.
for some reasons i fe to start the phyton shell once and afterwards i can just use the comandline...
Its fascinating to see how acurate the modules are placed and how far that projekt got already in such a short time..resect 8-/ |
What I did was calculate the separation between the module above and used that. I was thinking of other tricks to make it even better. Checking for like modules horizontally and match there vertical placement. But then I thought it be a bit of overkill. Plus modules like SineBank would make the patch display area huge and probably would yield as good results.
| Quote: | -The pch name is not allowed to have empty spaces or dots within...
But there are quite a few patches in the libary that use all naming possebilitys the Nm gives...
- on a mac the .pch ending is not always displayed.. the nm2g2 gets that they are nm1 patches nevertheless, and converts them..
but it don't puts an pch.2 ending to that converted file than..you have to do that manually.. |
This maybe a problem with the shell that is used. I don't have a Mac so I'm not sure how to debug it.
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the shelf eq module cant be translated... at least i got such an error message on a patch that wont have been translated...
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I wasn't sure how to handle this. I could create LP, HP, and a mixer to handle this case. I would build it static (no change from LP to HP dynamically). I gotta think about it more.
q |
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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1189
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 141
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:34 am Post subject:
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Ups.. i made a mistake...the shape osc waveforms are the other way around...
All is wave 3.. Odd is wave 4 on the Shapemod oscilator...
Regarding the shelf eq problem i would use a combination of the 3 band eq and the parametric eq... having the parametric eq on the same frequencie as the NM1 shelf and the outer 2 bands of the 3 band eq to fill up high or lowend... Or as cheap solution..jut replace the shelf with the parametric eq...wouldnt be the same but at least you would get the idea of the patchs tweak...
maybe it would be cool if the translator could mark questionable sections with a colour..so the user can tweak there by hand... |
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qfingers
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Tucson, AZ
G2 patch files: 2
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:47 am Post subject:
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| 3phase wrote: | Ups.. i made a mistake...the shape osc waveforms are the other way around...
All is wave 3.. Odd is wave 4 on the Shapemod oscilator... |
I changed it back in my code.
| Quote: | | Regarding the shelf eq problem i would use a combination of the 3 band eq and the parametric eq... having the parametric eq on the same frequencie as the NM1 shelf and the outer 2 bands of the 3 band eq to fill up high or lowend... Or as cheap solution..jut replace the shelf with the parametric eq...wouldnt be the same but at least you would get the idea of the patchs tweak... |
This seems like overkill, a simple 6db LP/HP filter with a mixer to mix the original signal should suffice. The 3 band eq has separation between the 3 bands with a set frequency. To model a shelf, I just need to amplify frequecies below center (LP), and frequencies above center (HP).
| Quote: | | maybe it would be cool if the translator could mark questionable sections with a colour..so the user can tweak there by hand... |
That could be done, I was just thinking of coloring the group of modules used to create a NM1 module. That would be questionable enough. The questionable question (hehehe) has limits. All modules are questionable as they may not function exactly even if there is a one-to-one module that matches. But colorizing the models created to emulate the NM1 module would be helpful because that is where alot of the problems will occur. I think I do that, but change the color for each module so when they are together vertically, they can be distinguished.
q |
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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1189
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 141
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:16 am Post subject:
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| qfingers wrote: |
This seems like overkill, a simple 6db LP/HP filter with a mixer to mix the original signal should suffice. The 3 band eq has separation between the 3 bands with a set frequency. To model a shelf, I just need to amplify frequecies below center (LP), and frequencies above center (HP).
[q |
I came along the issue in my hand conversion trys... the lowHigh-pass filters wont do the job because they have a fixed slope...
The parametric filter on widest q factor is really the one that gets sonically the closest match..i only used the 3 band to get the high and lowend..in some occasions i used 2 parametric filters overlapping adjusted by ear..but this would be probably to difficult to do by the program. I suggest to keep it simple there and try to use the para filter module... it sounds better than the nm1 eq´s..so it compenates a bit for the more narrow boost or cut...
Just checking the spectral oscilators...the fm amount knob on the G2 gives indeed a wider range but sounds harsher than on the nm1..
Question..is it better to replace the amount knob with a building block or would it be better to have a con version table? like setting 10 on nm1 equals setting xy on the g2? |
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qfingers
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Tucson, AZ
G2 patch files: 2
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:26 am Post subject:
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| 3phase wrote: | I came along the issue in my hand conversion trys... the lowHigh-pass filters wont do the job because they have a fixed slope...
The parametric filter on widest q factor is really the one that gets sonically the closest match..i only used the 3 band to get the high and lowend..in some occasions i used 2 parametric filters overlapping adjusted by ear..but this would be probably to difficult to do by the program. I suggest to keep it simple there and try to use the para filter module... it sounds better than the nm1 eq´s..so it compenates a bit for the more narrow boost or cut... |
I would probably prefer a spectrum analysis before doing anything. Becuase the NM1 has only a center freq, is it the 3dB down point from the top shelf? or is it the 3dB point from the bottom shelf? Is the center between the two? What is the bandwidth of the transistion band? Those are the questions that need answering. Then the thing can be modeled more acurately.
| Quote: |
Just checking the spectral oscilators...the fm amount knob on the G2 gives indeed a wider range but sounds harsher than on the nm1..
Question..is it better to replace the amount knob with a building block or would it be better to have a con version table? like setting 10 on nm1 equals setting xy on the g2? |
The convertion table would be better because it uses less resources. Adding a module costs more in terms of CPU and Memory resources.
q |
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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1189
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:35 am Post subject:
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| qfingers wrote: | | I would probably prefer a spectrum analysis before doing anything. Becuase the NM1 has only a center freq, is it the 3dB down point from the top shelf? or is it the 3dB point from the bottom shelf? Is the center between the two? What is the bandwidth of the transistion band? Those are the questions that need answering. Then the thing can be modeled more acurately. |
As i remember the center frequencie has to be altered...
I can check this out when i leave my lazy studio b and move the modulars to studio a again..there i can do freq response measurements...
From exeriance i can say that the combo of 2 para eq´s gives the closest match even when its not the same.. as more extrem the the settings of the NM1 shelf are as difficult it gets..especially when you get patches where the shelf is used to clip folowing stages...
However ..perfection is not possible..just the presence of an EQ module will give the user to alter the patch at this point... so as a interim solution just one para module with a similar setting is probably better than having a nonkonverted patch.
| Quote: | The convertion table would be better because it uses less resources. Adding a module costs more in terms of CPU and Memory resources.
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Ok.. i will do one than[/quote] |
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qfingers
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Tucson, AZ
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:52 am Post subject:
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| 3phase wrote: |
From exeriance i can say that the combo of 2 para eq´s gives the closest match even when its not the same.. as more extrem the the settings of the NM1 shelf are as difficult it gets..especially when you get patches where the shelf is used to clip folowing stages...
However ..perfection is not possible..just the presence of an EQ module will give the user to alter the patch at this point... so as a interim solution just one para module with a similar setting is probably better than having a nonkonverted patch. |
I added a EqPeak module, max it's bandwidth, and set it's frequency to the same as the NM1 module freq. I'm guessing the entire band is not required, just a section of it for proper results. At least it's a starting point.
q |
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dorremifasol
Joined: Sep 28, 2006
Posts: 823
Location: Barcelona, Spain
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:45 am Post subject:
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your'e doing a great work, please keep on!
_________________
Cheers,
Albert |
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qfingers
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3phase
Joined: Jul 27, 2004
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G2 patch files: 141
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:21 pm Post subject:
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I dont find the subpwmleadpatch on the clavia side..so cant compare what its supposed to sound..it seems that internal levels are to high..
when you want a feedback on a specific patch conversion it would be good to post the NM1 source aswell.
Its probably helpfull to see how you can get them to sound the same manualy.
regarding the lfo master slave connection...its in most cases enough to use various lfos in freerun but on the same frequencie settings..
This can be easy applied when the lfos are set to the same freq and a constant module in bipolar seting is aplied to the rate input of the pseudo slave modules... one tick up equals than 1 semitone up what is the same as the Nm1 slave modules are doing... its just semitone steps nothing funky.
So lfo A and a constant module in bipolar is the cheapest way to replace one slave lfo... Its however memory consuming in relation to the same module in the NM1... patches that use excessiv amounts of slave lfos will have problems...but many can easily be converted this way |
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