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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Will there be a new os soon?
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moom



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:14 pm    Post subject:  Will there be a new os soon?
Subject description: Will it have sampling capabilities?
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I am thinking of selling my G2X and using the money to invest in some other equipment.

I absolutely love my red machine and am incredibly upset with just the idea of letting it go but my sound design has begun to move further and further from synthesiser type sounds and more towards field recording and cross modulation of samples.

I post here because I need to know something before I let this beast out of my arms:

Will they be releasing a new OS soon and what are the likely features?

I would love some onboard sampling RAM as this would really make a difference in my use of the G2.

I know that this is a difficult question to answer but does anyone have any inside info? Wink

c Shocked
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Moved this to the general discussion, seemed more appropriate to me.

There have been no rumours of a new OS coming out.

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Even if they do an OS update, non-volatile sampling memory will still never be an option, as this would require a hardware re-design.

Anyway, I doubt that there will be a future OS.
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tim wrote:
Even if they do an OS update, non-volatile sampling memory will still never be an option, as this would require a hardware re-design.

Anyway, I doubt that there will be a future OS.


They could extend the patch file format so that modest sized samples could be appended to the pch file just like the text pad data. Transferred to volatile ram at patch load time.

They could do that, but I doubt they will.
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jksuperstar



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Most likely, you will be forced to use an external sampler, then pipe four sounds/voices into the G2 for further processing. Not much to do about it. I agree, sampling, non-volatile ram, and a few mor features in the "delay" modules would give the G2 basic sampling capabilities. Though I saw a patch somewhere once that used some MIDI control to play a sample on a computer, and bring it into a delay module for G2 mayhem. Have to take a look, might be worth making a Pd patch for a monophonic Pd/G2 vector-wavetable synth. Hmmmm...
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dorremifasol



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My common sense tells me that there could be a new OS upgrade announced at the next NAMM, I think it's a way of re-launch an already available product and make people and the press talk about it again.

About sampling capabilities, I doubt it.

I would rather prefer that many things were adressed, for example the delay noises and the reverb / filter quantization errors. Now the reverb never ends, it has always a low volume, low quantized residual noise. I suppose that's because the much talked 16 bit delay memory.

You can test this if you put a compressor just after a reverb, delay, eq 2 band / 3 band / peak (with the gain set to any value except the default one) with the threshold at minimum value and the ratio at maximum value. Sorry to say that but it's disgusting!

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dorremifasol



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

please let me share my pain with you...


pain.pch2
 Description:
my pain

Download
 Filename:  pain.pch2
 Filesize:  1.69 KB
 Downloaded:  1459 Time(s)


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monobass



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The main thing that is holding sampling back isn't the hardware so much as the attitude at Clavia, they just don't seem to want to do it and have never claimed they did want to do it.

It's sad in a way but I wouldn't be surprised if the G2 has seen it's last major update for its life span now.

But only really that sad if you outgrow the machine.. I won't be doing that for at least 3 years yet I don't reckon.

sampling makes a hell of a lot more sense in a 'digital' environment.. I appreciate the efforts people have made making the G2 sample things but it's strictly academic as far as I'm concerned. It's time consuming, extremely limited and low quality.

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jonkull



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tim wrote:
Anyway, I doubt that there will be a future OS.


Yeah...there's a part of me that regrets buying my G2. I feel like I bought something that's already on it's way out. I wouldn't say it's obsolete but the lack of support is a little worrisome.
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dasz



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

They must be working on something, as it has been since August since the last site/news update. But what that is, I have no idea. Typically it means, no strict deadline, to ensure highest possible quality. When a company commits to date X for something, quality usually suffers.

The motto appears to be - listen but make no comments, think it over, make some decisions, create it, tweak it until it is really ready and then tell everyone that it is here.

Propellerheads exhibit the same behavior. Maybe it is a Swedish thing.
/Dasz

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intoxicat



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

it may be a swedish thing... we do like to strike when least expected Smile
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windchill



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's certainly time for an update of the OS - at least a bunch of bug-fixes should be added. Do any Clavia staff read this forum? Given that a lot of the G2 owners congregate here it would be nuts not to. I remember, during a time when there were complaints on the Reaktor forum, that no less than the MD of Native Instruments himself turned up and got involved.
Oh yes... and I'm one of those who thinks a small amount of audio ram is essential for the G2 - and quite harmless to those who don't want it!
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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

windchill wrote:
....Do any Clavia staff read this forum? .....
Oh yes... and I'm one of those who thinks a small amount of audio ram is essential for the G2 - and quite harmless to those who don't want it!

Members of this forum that have close connections to Clavia have indicated in the past that Clavia does watch this forum, however, they never participate in discussions.

On the audio RAM: it has been discussed at length on this forum and on the mailing list in the past. It appears that Clavia has a strong view of what the NMG2 is and what it is not, and it is not a sampler in their view. It has been requested often, but the chance of being implemented is close to zero due to the Swedish concept-thinking.

On the update: although I would appreciate it highly, I am not holding my breath. Have done that too much in the past already. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised if they ever update again.

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windchill



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I know it's been said before - but I'll say it again .... volatile ram (or 'tables' in Reaktor parlance) does not necessarily a sampler make - it makes wavetable modules, grain delays, waveshapers, usable markov chains, definable probability\envelope curves, granular synthesisers ... need I go on?
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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, maybe I didn't understand. Are you requesting more complicated delay-like modules, like for grain delays (but based on 'live input') or more fixed stuff like wavetables? BTW, I would love wavetables.
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windchill



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's Reaktor's table that I'm requesting*. This could be quite small. A size of a mere 256 values would give us wavetables, definable curves for many puproses etc. But I would suggest that a sensible size would be a small multiple of 96,000 . This is still small enough to store as part of the patch - and can use existing memory in the G2 hardware ... but now possibilities open up for high-def definable oscillators, granular synthesis etc

.... Of course this represents a second or two of audio - so I guess those who wish to could now sample a kick or snare.


* The table might present itself as a module similar to one of the existing sequencers - with definable length and different levels of magnification. The ability to draw a curve with the mouse would be provided (I actually miss this in the existing 16-step sequencers). Obviously the table would be able to record from an input (whether control or audio). The start and end points of the 'loop' would also be controllable. (Of course a much faster clock signal would be required to use the table contents as audio or a high-def oscillator).
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jamos



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dasz wrote:
Typically it means, no strict deadline, to ensure highest possible quality. /Dasz


That's the way to do it, IMHO.

Last edited by jamos on Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:51 am; edited 2 times in total
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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

windchill wrote:
A size of a mere 256 values would give us wavetables, definable curves for many puproses etc. But I would suggest that a sensible size would be a small multiple of 96,000 .....

...The ability to draw a curve with the mouse would be provided (I actually miss this in the existing 16-step sequencers).


The smaller sized 256-like value modules I could see happening, but where would you store the 96,000 values? There is RAM available, but that is gone at each patch recalculation. I think the HW will not be suitable for this. Still, for 'live-loading' with audio it could be used, but that will not be very practical.

On the sequencer drawing issue: I fully agree, I absolutely hate the fact that you can't use the numeric keyboard or 'sweep' a curve with the mouse. Especially the 'sequencer values' is horrible, AFAIK the values can only be set by the buttons below the values or arrow up/down, not even by mouse drag or scroll.

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erstlaub



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Agreed, I've never used the sequencer values module once, it's just nasty and feels pointless, I don't even find the display that logical to look at.

I was gonna post this in the wishlist but it feels kinda pointless and has probably been discussed at length elsewhere - Imagine if they fixed the reverb so it was a proper 2 discrete channel stereo module and took off that apalling modulation (if we want to modulate it, we can do it ourselvs, its a modular synth dammit)

/rantmode off.

I still love her for all her quirks.

D
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windchill



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

more out of interest than anything else. What would prevent 96,000 values being stored with the patch (making it larger but still perfectly reasonable). Then when the patch is loaded the new 1.5 G2 operating system loads these values into the existing G2 RAM - and thus our new table module is then initialised and ready to go. Surely that's the existing hardware in use - only a software change required?
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Fozzie



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

windchill wrote:
more out of interest than anything else. What would prevent 96,000 values being stored with the patch (making it larger but still perfectly reasonable).


Non-volatile (I guess this is the right term for it) memory; the type of memory that now is used to store the patches in the hardware unit. Now, the patch parameters and comments are stored in this memory, but it is quite limited I guess. I am unsure how big this memory really is, but every sample/table data stored would lower the amount of patches / banks that can be stored. I don't think Clavia will ever make a patch format that allows patches with samples to be stored in the software but not in hardware, as it would violate the concept of 'programmable with aid of computer but fully usable standalone'.

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ian-s



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think I once calculated the G2's flash memory (used for non-volatile patch storage) was about 4Meg. An OB DX drum machine used 8K roms for most of its sounds.

I would like to see the envelope group padded out. A nice 16 stage envelope would come in handy, or maybe a linkable 8 stage unit.
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think the G2 is a dud product for Clavia and I don't reckon with any future OS updates. Anyhow, I'm about to move on to other platforms anyway, so it doesn't bother me. I've come to the conclusion that digital modular synthesis within a closed hardware environment like the G2 is ultimately a waste of time, as all your work is bound to the life-cycle of the given hardware. Clavia has shown that they don't give a damn about either backward-compatibility or long-term support of their older platform, the NM1, and the same will happen to the G2. I don't want to build my work on such a flimsy ground. My G2Xs are still in use, but they will be gradually replaced.
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dasz



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Quote:
dasz wrote:
Typically it means, no strict deadline, to ensure highest possible quality. /Dasz


That's the way to do it, IMHO.


yup, unfortunately it doesn't happen often enough and users have to become beta testers regardless if they want to or not.
/Dasz

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windchill



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I love the G2 - and would use it and nothing else if it had a little audio ram. Today I was unfaithful for the first time and have been drooling over the max\msp manual (I own Reaktor, but loathe it). I feel guilty and sort of dirty Very Happy
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