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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004 Posts: 1148 Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 236
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ian-s

Joined: Apr 01, 2004 Posts: 2669 Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Audio files: 42
G2 patch files: 626
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:48 pm Post subject:
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magnificent! |
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Lfohead
Joined: Jul 29, 2009 Posts: 289 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:23 pm Post subject:
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Thanks for sharing, keep the great work up mate |
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Kaan
Joined: May 30, 2008 Posts: 64 Location: Izmir, Turkey
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Check Mate

Joined: Sep 13, 2009 Posts: 27 Location: Germany
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:10 am Post subject:
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Thanks for that awesome patch Tim!
Cheers _________________ Welcome to the Future |
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dorremifasol

Joined: Sep 28, 2006 Posts: 814 Location: Barcelona, Spain
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 49
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:55 am Post subject:
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Wow, another gem. Thank you Tim! I'm trying it on the demo right now. Have you noticed that lowering the diffusion amount introduces a considerable delay? _________________ Cheers,
Albert |
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004 Posts: 1148 Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 236
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:57 am Post subject:
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dorremifasol wrote: | Have you noticed that lowering the diffusion amount introduces a considerable delay? |
The diffusor delays use a typical feedback/feedforward scheme. If you lower diffusion, feedforward is also backed down, so the cumulative temporal effect of the 4 cascaded delays becomes a lot more noticeable. Lowering the "Size" parameter makes the delay lines smaller, reducing the time lag.
As I wrote in the description, all these parameters interact with each other.
Glad you like it. Personally, this is the kind of lushness I was looking for, for many years. Never knew it was diffusors. Ha, so much to learn... |
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iPassenger

Joined: Jan 27, 2007 Posts: 1067 Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78
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dorremifasol

Joined: Sep 28, 2006 Posts: 814 Location: Barcelona, Spain
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 49
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Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject:
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Tim Kleinert wrote: | Ha, so much to learn... |
I can't even start to imagine what you could do with Reaktor. Fortunately you stick with the G2, and we thank you for that ^^ _________________ Cheers,
Albert |
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iPassenger

Joined: Jan 27, 2007 Posts: 1067 Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78
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Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:54 am Post subject:
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TIM,
Any chance u could give us some idea as to how this all works and what these all pass delays are doing. I've tried making all pass filters and delays before to smear signals but not got that far in the main. _________________ iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger |
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004 Posts: 1148 Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 236
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Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:29 pm Post subject:
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As mentioned, the L and R channels both contain 4 allpass delay stages arranged in series.
The usual implementation of an allpass delay is a delay with feedforward and feedback, the feedforward being tapped after the summing of feedback with incoming signal. The problem with this kind arrangement is headroom. If you apply a continuous signal to it, together with high amount of feedback, clipping is imminent.
Therefore I use a variation of this design, which also injects the input signal, scaled by feedback amount and inverted, into the feedback loop after the delay stage, before recursion. The result is that the more the feedback is raised (=dispersion) the less input signal reaches the feedback loop (as it is progressively cancelled out by the loopback injected negative signal) which thus prevents clipping. At the same time, this configuration will therefore pass the original signal through increasingly as feedback is raised (and the feedback loop shuts itself off progressively). (This is also the reason why the module placement should not be changed, because otherwise the cancelling doesn't work anymore due to one sample of latency.)
The problem with allpass delays is that typical ugly metallic ringing. In a standard Schoeder reverb type arrangement, one tries to alleviate this by cascading multiple allpass stages and making their delay times mutually prime. Another way to prevent metallic ringing is modulation. Although this is frowned on by reverb purists trying to model a real acoustic space, personally I love the spacy artificial sound of modulated reverbs, especially on synths. Modulated diffusor delays are in fact the building blocks of these kinds of reverb algorithms.
In this patch, the 8 diffusor delays all share the same delay size, but are modulated by one single sine LFO, multiplexed into 8 outputs of 0, 45, 90, 135, 180, 225, 270, and 315 degrees (and smoothed to audiorate via integration). 0, 90, 180, 270 outputs modulate the L diffusors, and 45, 135, 225, 315 going to R, to sufficiently decorrelate the stereo image.
That's all there is to it. Hope this helps.
cheers,
t |
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iPassenger

Joined: Jan 27, 2007 Posts: 1067 Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004 Posts: 1148 Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 236
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iPassenger

Joined: Jan 27, 2007 Posts: 1067 Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004 Posts: 1148 Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 236
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:16 am Post subject:
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Oh and I forgot to mention: As you see, the delay module is arkwardly placed above and outside the feedback loop. Don't change this! Otherwise the negative injection thing mentioned above will not work properly anymore. (Took me some time to figure that one out... ) |
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iPassenger

Joined: Jan 27, 2007 Posts: 1067 Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004 Posts: 1148 Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 236
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:45 pm Post subject:
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iPassenger wrote: | Ahh this is great, thanks for this Tim... must be closely related to the eventide's method of verb production. |
Ah, I see you're getting the hang of it, cool.
Modulating the allpass delay times in order to prevent the typical metallic ringing is something you'll already find in old designs like EMT250, Lexicon 224 etc.. It's often frowned upon by reverb purists as it has very little to do with modelling a real acoustic space. But personally, I LOVE this sound and for synthetic textures I totally PREFER it. |
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iPassenger

Joined: Jan 27, 2007 Posts: 1067 Location: Sheffield, UK
Audio files: 5
G2 patch files: 78
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:41 pm Post subject:
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Quote: |
Ah, I see you're getting the hang of it, cool.
Modulating the allpass delay times in order to prevent the typical metallic ringing is something you'll already find in old designs like EMT250, Lexicon 224 etc.. It's often frowned upon by reverb purists as it has very little to do with modelling a real acoustic space. But personally, I LOVE this sound and for synthetic textures I totally PREFER it. |
Well I tried the one above to see the smearing effect when chaining them. But adding some subtle modulation to each tap would really push the effect. . My H3000 has a swept verb algos which is one of my faves, like swinging the cathedral up and down around yr head, screw realism. _________________ iP (Ross)
- http://ipassenger.bandcamp.com
- http://soundcloud.com/ipassenger |
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004 Posts: 1148 Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 236
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Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:33 pm Post subject:
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iPassenger wrote: | screw realism. |
Which is why I got into electronic instruments in the first case.  |
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jamos

Joined: Jun 01, 2004 Posts: 513 Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:44 am Post subject:
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Diffuser chorus? What a boring name. You should call this the Hallelujah chorus! |
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Tim Kleinert
Joined: Mar 12, 2004 Posts: 1148 Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Audio files: 7
G2 patch files: 236
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:49 am Post subject:
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jamos wrote: | Diffuser chorus? What a boring name. You should call this the Hallelujah chorus! |
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