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mosc
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PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2008 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ted, thanks for adding the blood. It looks great but I think I'd prefer sticking with the first bloodless one. I think you are right, we have to restrain the violence here.

Jan: I never have applied fuzzy logic to anything. I prefer fuzzy thinking. It's much less rigorous and apparently I have a natural gift for it.

(Too bad it too me over 20 years to think of that. I'm sure Zadeh has heard that before though.)

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
I prefer fuzzy thinking. It's much less rigorous and apparently I have a natural gift for it.


Or natural substances to reach the same effect ... same here BTW, fuzzy was the buzz a decade or two ago, never found use for it though ... funny thing is that wikipedia does list some successful applications.

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mosc
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Zadeh said some Japanese companies were using it for washing machine controllers and such. I never did get why you would need something like fuzzy logic for such a deterministic application. I thought it might have some promise for stock trading. Not much has come of it though as far as I know.

I found myself getting involved in DSP and adaptive filters and such. It seems to me that adaptive algorithms is both useful and practical. Fuzzy logic, AI and Neural Nets always seem just beyond the range of the practical, but I may not be smart enough to get it.

Dave Peck's talk as Chateau Sonore where is explained that his favorite module is the cross fader really struck a cord with me. The cross fader is a really good adaptive controller if you that a generalist view of it.

It's probably not clear what I mean, but that's fuzzy thinking for you... Wink

Last edited by mosc on Thu May 22, 2008 10:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
* Automobile and other vehicle subsystems, such as automatic transmissions, ABS and cruise control (e.g. Tokyo monorail)
* Air conditioners
* The Massive engine used in the Lord of the Rings films, which helped show huge scale armies create random, yet orderly movements
* Cameras
* Digital image processing, such as edge detection
* Rice cookers
* Dishwashers
* Elevators
* Washing machines and other home appliances
* Video game artificial intelligence
* Language filters on message boards and chat rooms for filtering out offensive text
* Pattern recognition in Remote Sensing
* Fuzzy logic has also been incorporated into some microcontrollers and microprocessors, for instance, the Freescale 68HC12.


From : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzzy_logic , my highlights

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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I read Bart Kosko's "Fuzzy Thinking" book in grad school, still have it in fact. If I recall correctly, Kosko was one of Zadeh's students - is that right? Anyway, the thing I remember about the washing machines was that they use sensors that monitor how dirty the water is and what the motor's electrical load is, among other things, then they use the fuzzy logic to combine the various factors into a decision of when the wash is done. This is more efficient than the way American washing machines work with pre-determined cycles, and the Japanese of course love efficiency - and they must, being so resource deprived.

I also remember that fuzzy logic is an easy way to create control surfaces for control systems. First you define the fuzzy sets, then apply the fuzzy logic and ta-da out pops a control surface. So you don't have to think of what the shape of the control surface is, which is nice if you have more than two inputs because it gets really hard to visualize beyond that.

I also recall learning in grad school that part of the reason for the non-acceptance of fuzzy logic is simply its name. The Japanese are more sensible and do not judge a book by its cover as much as we Americans do, so they embraced fuzzy logic while Americans laughed at its name. So goes the story, be it true or not.

But you probably knew that stuff, just thought I'd chime in since it hadn't been mentioned. Oh, here is some fuzzy logic:

Code:
 if ( (music is hard) and (music is fast) and (music is loud) ) then {
        print "music is rock!";
}

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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Code:

elseif( music is fuzzy)
{
  print "music is [b][i][color=#255293]electro-music[/color][/i][/b]"
}


I like the idea of cultural differences playing a role in acceptance of fuzziness, no idea if it's true of course ... Howard likes his fuzzy thoughts obviously, and at least /some/ fuzzy machines, but he is hardly a prototype American I guess ... we have no Japanese members I think ... too bad.[/quote]

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PostPosted: Thu May 22, 2008 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have a copy of his "Neural Networks and Fuzzy Systems" The most interesting parts of it to me were his demonstration of formal equivalence between neural nets and fuzzy logic and his treatment of fuzzy logic as vectors on the unit hypercube. I makes the relation between fuzzy and Aristotelian logic easy to see and understand and also aids in comprehension of the defuzzyfication process.
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Last edited by bachus on Sat May 24, 2008 5:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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mosc
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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is a worth application of fuzzy logic.

http://www.gotvape.com/store/evolutions.vaporizer.php

Quote:
Fuzzy Logic & The Evolutions Vaporizer

The Evolutions Vaporizer employs Fuzzy Logic to determine how much more heat the temperature needs to stay at the desired temperature.


happy smoker

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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I must have one!
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PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

500$ Laughing one would need some fuzzy thinking to buy that Wink
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PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, this thing is designed to get you feeling fuzzy, more healthily. Razz
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