electro-music.com   Dedicated to experimental electro-acoustic
and electronic music
 
    Front Page  |  Articles  |  Radio
 |  Media  |  Forum  |  Wiki  |  Links  |  Store
Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
 FAQFAQ   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   LinksLinks
 RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in  Chat RoomChat Room 
Live streaming at radio.electro-music.com

  host / artist show at your time
<on air> EdisonRex Edison's Electronic Review
Please visit the chat
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Arturia Synths
Arturia MMV Massive Bug List
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 2 [48 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Author Message
elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:36 pm    Post subject: Arturia MMV Massive Bug List Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's time to get Arturia off their asses and fix MMV2. Three and a half years and 4 revisions is too long for this crap to remain in the disastrous state it's in. Anybody who cares about this product and has found bugs themselves should read this, and if those bugs aren't mentioned here, post them to this topic, I'll gather them up in the near future, combine them with these and send them off to Arturia to do something about. I just can't take this crappy software anymore.

The following list is about bugs that are totally within MMV2, not so much about problems interfacing with somebody's particular computer or sound card, as those aren't experienced by all users. I've also included some comments about poor design issues or other problems that may not be bugs, but should be documented to show problematic or limited MMV2 behavior that shouldn't have been put there in the first place. Bugs specific to certain modules are placed under that module name. General MMV bugs follow after those under "General MMV2 Synth Bugs" heading.




Oscillators
-----------

(1) An osc has a total of 4 exponential modulation inputs, two on the osc and two on the osc controller. Connecting an audio rate osc or noise source into any one of those causes 3 of them to stop working. This is one of the most major module bugs in MMV.

(2) The sinewave can't hard/soft sync.

(3) Can't hard/soft sync more than one osc to the same source osc. Trying to do so keeps one osc sort of sync'd and the other not sync'd, with both making strange clicking sounds depending on their frequency settings.

(4) The second PWM nut improperly displays the setting of the first PWM nut when turned, so it can never be set numerically accurate.

(5) Saving a patch with an osc bank set to LFO mode may not get you the same sound when loaded back into the synth. In my case a polyphonic patch plays only intermittent monophonic notes. I have a set of patches that only work correctly after I manually cycle through the K1,K2,K3,K4,No setting back to the LFO setting after I load them.

(Poor Design Issues). The pulse width knob also changes the triangle and sawtooth waves into other waveforms. Unfortunately Arturia put the sawtooth wave at the leftmost position, and the triangle and square waves at the rightmost position. So you can't get sawtooth (at the proper pitch) and triangle and square waves at the same time from an osc bank. Mixing waveforms together on an osc is common, and when standard waveforms like sawtooth and triangle change into other waveforms as the pulsewidth is changed, it's annoying and requires bringing in another osc bank and syncing it to the first, using more oscs to acheive what should be done with just one. Those other waveforms aren't even very useful. Turning the pulsewidth knob gives you a hardsync'd sawtooth waveform, something that can already be done by simply syncing one osc to another.



Envelopes
---------

(1) The envelopes are shaped wrong. Instead of a mild curve, they like a quarter of a circle with an additional flat part of about the same length that causes a delay or what seems like the envelope getting stuck before moving on to the decay stage. This causes all kinds of problems in getting certain sounds where a soft attack is needed on a percussive type envelope, or when using it to do large osc sweeps, or when using it to control the amount of modulation, and so on. And since the other stages are shaped the same way, release times that should have ended instead extend far beyond what they should causing more voices of polyphony to be used up causing MMV to make awful sounds when running out of processing power. Synth envelope stages aren't shaped like circles. It's typical on a Moog to control audio with an exponential VCA which somewhat counteracts the mild logrithmic curve of Moog env attacks making them closer to linear, which means Arturia has created the most un-Moog-like envelopes possible. Page 111 in the 2.0 manual shows what an envelope plot should look like. MMV doesn't behave anything like that.

(2) Envelope times are actually 7 times longer than displayed. Set an attack time of 100 ms and you actually get 700 ms for example. (Maybe I just don't understand the logic behind this because I'm not French, I don't know.)

(3) MMV envelopes are completely hosed when used with a sustain/hold pedal. The VCA2 envelope seems to be the only one that works correctly. Most of the time the VCA1 envelope stops triggering after all voices have been used up and only starts working again after the sustain pedal has been released. The general purpose envelopes are flakey, appearing to work in one patch, but not in others.

(4) VCA envelopes can't be triggered from the envelope follower module since the envelope follower trigger doesn't work unless the VCA envelope is already excuting its envelope. Chicken/egg situation. So that trigger menu option is bogus. Also bogus since the envelope trigger doesn't work anyway, see Envelope Follower section.

(5) The soft clipping only works intermittently and randomly when playing polyphonically. Many notes and chords played come through with no soft clipping. Soft clipping is acting like a monophonic function not useable in polyphonic patches.

(6) Can't sync env to an osc if the osc pulse width knob is in the zero position. The position of that knob should have nothing to do with syncing an env.

(7) The mod in nut on VCA2 gives a display in ms. Fortunately the numbers aren't actually given in ms which is meaningless for a mod input, it's just an improper ms tacked on after the number.

(Poor Design Issues) Attack and decay times can go to 38415 ms (multiplied by seven remember), that's 4.48 minutes, far more than anybody needs and beyond the 10 seconds of the original Moog. But rather than keep things simple Arturia made the release times go to 70000 ms (x7) for 8.17 minutes. Because of this lack of logic and the exponential workings of the knobs, no longer can release times be set to match decay times fast and easily by just putting them at the same knob positions, instead the popup numeric displays keep needing to be looked at, aggravated even more by the fact they often display settings for the wrong knob. There's a right way and a wrong way to do things, so why choose the wrong way? Seems to be the way companies do things these days.


LFO's
-----

(Warnings) LFO modulation and pwm inputs don't work correctly in polyphonic patches. I have confirmed that the LFO modules are monophonic accept for the env delay and fade portion. Thanks for telling us Arturia. Since this seems intentional, it can't really be called a bug other than there is no way to know about this until a patch doesn't work correctly. Think you can pop an osc bank into LFO mode and use that instead? Nope, that turns monophonic too. You need to use the osc bank [NO] option for keyboard tracking to get polyphonic LFO usage. But that causes all 3 oscs to consume processing power even if only one is used if the manual is to be believed. And it seems that the sinewave oscillators reset on keypresses (gee, why don't they reset when hardsync'd ?) most of the time rather than run freely in that mode, yet not always, depending on polyphony used. There is no way to guarantee reliable polyphonic LFO usage in MMV.

(Poor Design Issues) If the PWM knob is set to the zero position where you would normally keep it, then 3 out of the 5 LFO waveforms don't output what the panel graphics indicate. That knob needs to set to the rightmost position for normal operation. Why does Arturia do backwards stuff like this?



Filters
-------

(1) Lowpass filter module is unreliable as a sinewave sound source since it can't seem to stay in tune, can all of a sudden change several semitones in pitch, and/or change to a different pitch when switched between monophonic and polyphonic modes. MMV is a digital synth, not real analog, and shouldn't be doing this.

(2) On the multimode bandpass filter (if I remember correctly), depending on the patch and the phases of the moon, turning the resonance knob to zero can cause MMV to stop producing sound. Probably do to floating point numbers going out of bounds and trapping out.



Formant Filter
--------------

(1) Knob settings don't get saved with the patch. Unless a person wants to write down knob settings and manually dial them in anytime a patch is loaded, then this sophisticated module is uselss for anything beyond the 5 built in vowel sounds. This needs to be fixed!



Sample & Hold
-------------

(1) S/H module only works intermittently and randomly when used in a polyphonic patch. It doesn't even work properly with a monophonic input running through it such as a modwheel voltage in a polyphonic patch. It just appears totally absent when some notes are played. I confirmed this is a monophonic module and thus will not function properly in a polyphonic patch. This is totally screwed. Arturia seems to keep slipping monophonic functions into the MMV polyphonic section without telling the customer who thinks he has bought a polyphonic synth and then has to deal with patches screwing up because of it. This module needs to be polyphonic and fixed.



Envelope Followers
------------------

(1) The trigger function doesn't work with the exception of one rare time when running external audio through it and only when a VCA envelope was in execution. I have since tried several more times to get it to work from external audio and it won't, and I have never gotten it to work when running signals from within the synth through it. This needs to be fixed!



Frequency Shifter
-----------------

(1) You guessed it, it's another monophonic module. Attaching FM inputs in a polyphonic patch will give you unexpected results. Again, Arturia doesn't tell the customer this.



Keyboard Follow Section
-------------------------

(1) The knobs have missing gabs in range that can't be gotten to even with the mouse/right button fine adjustment. For instance, settings jump from 0.79 to 1.0 to 1.2 etc, with nothing inbetween. What about 0.80 to 0.99 for for example? In other words, you can't have keyboard tracking of 80% to 99%, 101% to 119%, 180% to 199%, and so on. Ridiculous. Negative keyboard tracking isn't supported here either.

(2) The K-Shift(what the manual calls Pivot) and Threshold parameters are switched. If you change the K-Shift parameter, you'll change the Threshold. And if you change the Threshold parameter, you'll change the K-Shift/Pivot. This section is confusing and is overkill anyway. I see virtually no use for a threshold parameter and even the pivot doesn't really buy you anything except tell you where the zero point is (that could be fixed permanently to middle C), and the fact that the Arturia programmers couldn't get it straight, and 4 revisions of MMV and 3.5 years later nobody has noticed, just shows how little understood and unused this is. It's still totally baffling how this bug has survided this long and not been noticed though. Maybe the fact is not one single person has ever used these controls in MMV's history.

(3) There are 4 low/hi keyboard trigger ranges that can be set, but all trigger menus in all modules only allow a choice to use the first 3. There appears to be no way to use the 4th one. How friggen hard is it to include the 4th one on all the menus? Didn't they know there were 4 of them when programming the menus? Do I really need to tell Arturia how to do their jobs?



Mixer Section
-------------

(1) The soft clipping only works intermittently and randomly when playing polyphonically. Many notes and chords played come through with no soft clipping. Soft clipping appears to be another monophonic function not useable in polyphonic patches. Same soft clip problem as in the VCA envelopes.



Digital Delay
-------------

(1) The delay time knobs go to 5000 ms of delay, but the module is only capable of 3000 ms of delay. The last 2000 ms of knob movement does nothing. (I've gone on many diatribes about the questionable intelligence of computer programmers, but how the hell is it humanly possible to write a delay module and not know about this? If 3 seconds of delay memory is allocated then give the knobs a 3 second range. Or if the knob has a range of 5 seconds then allocate 5 seconds of delay memory. It's really not hard to get the two to match. Do I really need to point this out? Sometimes it almost seems like a company wants to look totally incompetent to their customers.)



Phaser
------

(1) The resonance knob has very little affect when the phaser is set to 6 stages. Depending on input material it can sometimes seem to do nothing. Seems to work correctly only in 12 stage mode.

(2) When used in conjuntion with the Delay module, the right VCA2 phaser input doesn't work correctly. It pans the sound to the right rather than keeping it centered as it does with the left VCA1 input.



Chorus
------

(1) Same bug as phaser bug number 2.

(2) The rate knob also changes the amount. Thanks to Gordon Reid of SOS magazine for pointing out this ridiculous behavior. The amount knob is supposed to change amount, and the rate knob should change rate. So why then does the rate knob also change the amount?

(Poor Design Issues) The Chorus can be switched to type 1,2, or 3. The manual being of no help only says these are simple, medium, complex. What's really happing is that 1,2,3 refer to the number of chorus units. But when selecting more than 1, the others run at completely different rates. For instance, if you select 2, the second chorus seems to be running at maybe 2.5 times slower than the first. No wonder it's hard to impossible to get full thick chorus sounds. If you get chorus unit 1 to sound right, 2 is too slow and just adds an annoying swirling sound. Set unit 2 to where it should be and 1 is now way to fast and sounding out of tune. It just seems impossible to get a full sounding chorus sound without hearing all kinds of swirling and sweeping. The way to do it is either, have the other units run at slightly below or above the rate of the first, or have them run at the same rate but out of phase, like 0, 120, and 240 degrees apart for a continual thinkening effect like some old string synths. Add to that, that the stereo width has its own rate which seems to have the affect of panning the sound left and right rather than just stereofying it. I'd really like a decent chorus unit in MMV.



Sequencer
---------

(1) In the little bit I tried to use the sequencer I uncovered many bugs and can't remember the specifics them all, other than so many of the trigger menu selections don't work and I've gotten strange sequencer behavior like it skipping from the first step to the last without running through the sequence and then getting stuck there. My main use for the sequencer was simply to hit a key on a keyboard and have it run a sequence once then stop. So simple a task, and going by the sequencer trigger menu options should be easily possible, but the sequencer ignored triggers from its own steps and envelope end triggers, so that simple task couldn't be done. My advice to Arturia is to actually try these menu items out to see if they actually work before releasing this pile of bugs on the public.

(Poor Design Issues) The sequencer knobs have 12 steps of resolution to both the left and right of center to allow 12 semitones up or down from the current key (far too small a range for many things, I don't understand this limit). Whether controlling osc or filter freq there are only these 12 +/- steps. So the dial displays 12 numbers left and right, correct? Of course not, because that would be common sense and make it easy to dial in the notes you want. Arturia has no common sense and the dials instead are divided into a total of 100 steps left and 100 right ranging from -1.0 to 1.0. So if you want a note to sound 7 semitones up, dial in something like 0.58 abouts and you have it. Be careful because a 0.4 might get you 0 semitones or 1 because 12 integers don't go nicely into 1.0. What the hell were they thinking. I guess I need to make up a conversion chart.

(Poor Design Issues) There is a row of numbers for setting the next step number for each seq step. Click on the number and move between 10 settings with the mouse and a redundant knob underneath also moves. There are 8 of these redundant knobs with the sole purpose of doing what can already be done another way. Why? What a waste of panel real estate. Why didn't they move those knobs up and give us a 4 rows of control voltages and a 32 step sequencer instead? I just don't get what they were thinking when designing this sequencer.



External Audio Inputs
---------------------

(1) Unpredictable audio quality can range anywhere from sounding like horrible metalic noise, to clean audio with intermittent noise sometimes caused by nothing, sometimes caused by moving knobs or cables. There is no way to rely on external audio working correctly on any given day or hour.




--------------- General MMV2 Synth Bugs ---------------


(1) Polyphonic patches plagued with clicking/popping noises on their attacks. This is driving me insane. Because the problem mostly goes away in monophonic mode I spent time trying to figure out what's going on. Here it is. In mono mode the processing power usage indicator goes up. This means MMV is continuously running even when a note isn't being played, so all parameters are where they should be, and when a new note is played, the same voice is used. In poly mode, when the VCA release time goes to zero, the voice deactivates, and module settings are left hanging in whatever state they are in at that point. Then when a new voice is needed for a new note, one of the those previously used voices is used which is still set to whatever state it was left in when last used, and that junk appears at the start of the new note played. Arturia is starting the envelope and sound of the new note before junk from the last voice is cleaned up. That's not the way to do things. Clean up first, then trigger the new note, geez. Stuff like this really gets me angry, because it's so obvious it shouldn't be programmed this way and it's the kind of problem that can really make a synth useless. This is one of the most major bugs in the general working of MMV.

(2) Midi Controllers assigned to knobs aren't saved with the patch. This is totally screwed. If for example you assigned a foot pedal to control filter freq in one patch, then at some later time assign a foot pedal to control lfo modulation in another patch, it will no longer be controlling filter freq in your earlier patch, but lfo modulation instead. I guess it's now back to documenting midi patch assignments on paper and attaching them when a patch is loaded and removing them before closing the patch. Unacceptable. Arturia needs to understand that how a patch is controlled changes depending on the patch. This is totally baffling to me.

(3) Grabbing a knob and turning it often displays a parameter box for the wrong knob. Example, start turning the Sustain knob and up pops the display for LFO Delay instead. Then you have to release the knob and grab it a second time (or sometimes many times) to get the correct display. With all the patching I'm doing, this is getting really old. In fact, MMV sloppily displays two parameter boxes many times, sometimes the second appearing ontop of the first or sometimes it appears in a completely different area of the synth, appearing at times if you hold the mouse over a knob for a certain amount of time, or other times if you move the mouse over the knob. The Phaser module is the worst at this kind of stuff.

(4) I have patches that bomb out when played too fast, or if played too high on the kybd, or if a cable is connected from one place to another, or if a knob is turned to a certain point. These can cause anything from MMV to stop producing audio, to displaying an Windows error dialogue box that can only be seen after closing the MMV window. Another person reported a bug with the S/H causing some kind of floating point overflow error. I believe all of these flakey bugs that cause MMV to stop working based on how it's played or patched are all probably do to values going out of range and MMV not able to recover until it's launched again. And some of these bugs will even cause you to have to exit a second time run it again to finally get it working. Sloppiness.

(5) The manual is a poor english translation, is vague and lacks substance. Want to know what the sawtooth and triangle waveforms change to when the PWM knob is moved? Want to know what the different Chorus Type settings actually do? Want to know if the LFO is monophonic or polyphonic? Want to know whether the effects are arranged in parallel or serial and in what order? The manual won't tell you. The manual says you can click on a cable to select it and press the delete key to delete it. Wrong, the manual also lies. Want to see a plot of all of the multimode filter types? The manual displays only 6 out of the 7, excluding the bandpass filter. Why leave out the bandpass filter? Because the manual is sloppy and incomplete.

(6) When installing version 2.0 I was asked if I wanted to install the version 1.2 VST. Is the VST really that old version or is this just another bug?




--------------- Other MMV2 Synth Problems and Limitations ---------------


(1) A single knob setting can suck all the power out of MMV. I loaded two patches for a bi-timbral sound. Just playing 3 notes caused it to run out of processing power and make awful sounds. The pwm was too fast on the lower notes, so in each patch I simply moved an osc bank freq knob a few octaves down lowering the rate from about 5Hz to 1Hz (just 4Hz). The osc bank was set to LFO mode so shouldn't have been consuming much power to begin with. Just that one adjustment allowed me to play 8 notes of polyphony with room to spare (could probably have gotten 10 notes). That means polyphony was cut down by about a factor of 4 just because of the setting of one knob. Something is wrong here. In fact, for a 2GHz computer, sometimes I'm getting a lot less polyphony than I'd expect, and some of it seems to be related to issues like the above, where just a single knob setting or cable patched from one place to another can drag MMV way down. I'm running the stand alone version. I can't conceive of running MMV as a VST with a DAW or with other plug-ins running. Software companies need to spend time optimizing their software for speed and efficiency because their own wastefulness could doom their own products.

(2) When connecting MIDI to control a knob on the MMV, there is no way to set the scale/range. Rarely does anybody want a foot pedal, mod wheel, ribbon cable, or breath controller to control a knob from 0 to 100%. Nor does MMV smooth MIDI to eliminate obvious stepping. These problems in addition to the assignments not being saved with the patch makes this whole capability virtually useless for adding realtime expression while playing from any controllers beyond the velocity/aftertouch/modwheel jacks, and of limited use when trying to control MMV from a sequencer. And aftertouch on most keyboards is neither polyphonic nor useable/controllable, so velocity and modwheel smoothed through an envelope follower are about the only controls you'll be able to use for realtime performance expression (remember the sustain pedal is unreliable in MMV). Extremely poor for such a powerful synth.

(3) I can see no reason for some of the limits placed on what modules can be selected for the second row on MMV. If I can select the formant filter for a 4th filter module, I should be able to instead select a 4th lowpass filter. Only one ring modulator is allowed, yet something as seldom used as an envelope follower (especially when audio input doesn't work well, nor does the env fol trigger work) allows four to be selected.

(4) Arturia claim to be emulating the Moog modular. But the MMV fixed filter bank isn't a fixed filter bank, it's an equalizer. This is very deceptive. They should provide a fixed filter bank like the Moog modular and a person could select which one they wanted like the phaser/chorus option. The formant filter isn't really a formant filter either, but a parametric EQ.

(5) The Glide is what I guess would be refered to as constant speed, as it doesn't change speed based on interval distance. There is no way to select constant time. I don't know if the Moog modular is like this, my Multimoog isn't. Constant time seems better. With MMV's constant speed, if you hold down a large chord, all the notes won't slide into their destinations at the same time, and is very sloppy sounding. And setting a comfortable glide for closely spaced notes will be too much for farther spaced notes. Setting a comfortable glide for far spaced notes may not even be heard at all on closely spaced notes. In addition, the glide is completely linear in its speed, so when it glides into a note it comes to an abrubt and very unnatural sounding stop. Would be nice if there was a selection.


-Elhardt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
3phase



Joined: Jul 27, 2004
Posts: 1152
Location: Berlin
Audio files: 13
G2 patch files: 138

PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I wouldnt be surprised if aturia themself dont know most of this bugs...you probably went deeper into patching theire system than anybody before.
lets hope that they after perfection... because of the age of the product they probabbly dont expect bigger sales by fixing the software.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

3phase wrote:
I wouldnt be surprised if aturia themself dont know most of this bugs...you probably went deeper into patching theire system than anybody before.
lets hope that they after perfection... because of the age of the product they probabbly dont expect bigger sales by fixing the software.


They may not know of many of them, but they do know of some of them, but they've responded to others as if they don't care. That might be because working on an update for a few minor bugs isn't worth it. But my bug list shows the entire product is plagued with them. It needs another revision. And if they are going to support the new Intel Macs, now should be the time for them to fix all this stuff.

Problem is bugs aren't advertised, only new features are. So in version 1.5 they gave us 6 new modules rather than fixing any bugs. Of course, with those 6 new modules came a bunch of more bugs.

-Elhardt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I forgot to mention that I had posted that bug list on the Arturia forums, so they may have seen it if they actually look at their own forums. However, I will email it to them to make sure they read it just incase they haven't seen it.

-Elhardt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ndkent



Joined: Jan 03, 2006
Posts: 66
Location: new york

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This seems like the perfect definition of a love-hate relationship with a piece of software. To me this software has impressed me with much better than average bass and a reaction that I'm not so much using a modular than I'm using a matrix modulation synth with an super elaborate GUI.

On the upside it is fairly intuative for modular synth user to work with... until I guess you run into something it fails to simulate. Or perhaps one's own modular happens to be bigger or have that extra ADSR or whatever that you just can't add. I also think the faux modular feeling is really is spoiled by the tacked on FX & EQ that can only be placed after the patch.

I keep thinking wouldn't it be more productive for Elhardt to have a serious go at Reaktor?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mohoyoho



Joined: Dec 03, 2003
Posts: 1633
Location: Tennessee
Audio files: 8

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I agree. Reaktor may be more what he is looking for. I'm a huge Reaktor fan, but I also love MMV. Since I don't own a modular, I really don't have anything to compare the MMV with. I find the MMV a good sounding synth with a very useful sequencer. The GUI is very intuitive and modulations are right there in the open to look at; no hidden menus.
_________________
Mark Mahoney
Kingsport, Tennessee
http://www.reverbnation.com/markmahoney
www.cdbaby.com/cd/markmahoney
www.cdbaby.com/cd/mmahoneympeck
http://cdbaby.com/cd/mmahoneympeck2
http://www.limitedwave.com/subterraneous/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ndkent wrote:
This seems like the perfect definition of a love-hate relationship with a piece of software.

On the upside it is fairly intuative for modular synth user to work with... until I guess you run into something it fails to simulate. Or perhaps one's own modular happens to be bigger or have that extra ADSR or whatever that you just can't add. I also think the faux modular feeling is really is spoiled by the tacked on FX & EQ that can only be placed after the patch.

I keep thinking wouldn't it be more productive for Elhardt to have a serious go at Reaktor?



I have a love-hate relationship with many things I own. MMV would be great if about 2/3's of it didn't have bugs and a few other problems.

I own Reaktor. Bought it mostly for doing sophisticated effects. Reaktor is slow to work with though, and doesn't encourage experimentation. It's better for when you already know how you're going to do something. I do plan on moving some sounds over to it to really get them sounding real some day. MMV is fast and easy to patch up which is why I like working with it. However, Reaktor is not without problems. I bought version 2.3 which worked, then got my free upgrade to 3.0 which keeps hanging up or bombing out, can't remember. And 3.0 was the version they added a copy protection dongle and I had to choose an OS. I picked Mac, but now I have a lot newer and faster PC I'd like to run it on, so I'm screwed.

I can go Nord Modular for some stuff, but I always seem to run out of DSP power.

-Elhardt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dalekay



Joined: Nov 16, 2003
Posts: 140
Location: Lancaster CA

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You can show arturia the bug list all you want. My experince with them face to face at NAMM is, here let me show you where you are wrong ... while they proceed at doing everything else but what you said...
showed them a list about 2 years back .. what came of it, I gave up and just accepted it for what it is, will do and not ...

CS-80 is just as bad it not worst in some places...

dale

Inquisitor Betrayer
New CD "Space Elevator" Get it at http://cdbaby.com/cd/inquisitorbetrayer,
http://www.inquisitorbetrayer.com , http://www.myspace.com/inquisitorbetrayer ,
http://www.musicforte.com/member/ib_staff
Apple iTunes http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=200365877

Angel's Wings
http://www.soundclick.com/angelswings

New synth programming group for all synths.
Synth_Programming-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dalekay wrote:
You can show arturia the bug list all you want. My experince with them face to face at NAMM is, here let me show you where you are wrong ... while they proceed at doing everything else but what you said...
showed them a list about 2 years back .. what came of it, I gave up and just accepted it for what it is, will do and not ...

CS-80 is just as bad it not worst in some places...



I got your e-mail a few weeks back saying about the same thing. The way I see it is there are things they won't change because they don't see them as important. But there are some major screw-ups that are so wrong they almost have to fix them. The formant filter losing its settings when saved, FM inputs not working right on the oscs, env followering threshold not working, and so on. These are definite major defects. My list is now at several places on the net and hundreds of people have seen it. MidiMell on AH said he forwarded my bug list to some Yamaha executive. If that bug list makes their product look like a complete disaster and they know it's traveling around the net, that may give them incentive to do something about it, especially if they are working on a Mac/Intel version, now would be the time to deal with some of this stuff.

I got an e-mail from Arturia's leading sound design guy after he heard my Beethoven demo I posted there. He was in a rush to put it up on their site before a certain date for some reason. Being so behind on email, I didn't see it until about 3 weeks too late. But now I'm thinking, if they want to use any of my demos, it's not going to be until after they fix MMV. Some guy on the Arturia site seemed to be talking to somebody from Arturia saying he should look at my bug list and take into consideration the things I've said. The more people that put pressue on Arturia, the better. You and I have already bought the software and they got our money. But if potential buyers start asking for the bugs to be fixed before they buy, that would also help.

-Elhardt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dalekay



Joined: Nov 16, 2003
Posts: 140
Location: Lancaster CA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yep, I am with you. But I sort of expect them to charge or some major update in the near future.

I think you are right, hold back your demo as you would be promo'ing a flawed item.

dale

band web pages
Inquisitor Betrayer
New CD "Space Elevator" Get it at http://cdbaby.com/cd/inquisitorbetrayer
http://www.inquisitorbetrayer.com , http://www.myspace.com/inquisitorbetrayer , http://www.musicforte.com/member/ib_staff and
Angel's Wings http://www.soundclick.com/angelswings
iTunes http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=200365877
Recent events require your assistance to your charities. Do give when able. "without music, life would be a mistake"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dalekay wrote:
Yep, I am with you. But I sort of expect them to charge for some major update in the near future.


I don't know that there is any major upgrade they can do to MMV. And a bug fix update shouldn't cost extra.

-Elhardt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dalekay



Joined: Nov 16, 2003
Posts: 140
Location: Lancaster CA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elhardt wrote:
I don't know that there is any major upgrade they can do to MMV. And a bug fix update shouldn't cost extra.

-Elhardt


Why not cost more? They would have to task a programmer or two on it, update it, beta check it and so forth. All sounds like money to me?

Your list is long, the best single list I seen. Did you post it in the Arthuria MMV yahoo group? I don't see to recall it but that group is also very silent. Almost as silent as the ARP2600.

dale

band web pages
Inquisitor Betrayer
New CD "Space Elevator" Get it at http://cdbaby.com/cd/inquisitorbetrayer
http://www.inquisitorbetrayer.com , http://www.myspace.com/inquisitorbetrayer , http://www.musicforte.com/member/ib_staff and
Angel's Wings http://www.soundclick.com/angelswings
iTunes http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=200365877
Recent events require your assistance to your charities. Do give when able. "without music, life would be a mistake"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dalekay wrote:

Why not cost more? They would have to task a programmer or two on it, update it, beta check it and so forth. All sounds like money to me?

Your list is long, the best single list I seen. Did you post it in the Arthuria MMV yahoo group? I don't see to recall it but that group is also very silent. Almost as silent as the ARP2600.



It shouldn't cost me or anybody more for them to fix their own mistakes. They shipped software that wasn't finished or tested. I bought a synth that was supposed to work, and it would be ridiculous for me to have to pay more to get it to work the way it was supposed to in the first place. Some companies charge more if you're getting a bunch of more features, but bug fixes are something different. Plus, it's still a currently selling product and new people are still buying it. They're still making money from it. Many of the bugs seem like they would be a simple programming fix. I would think they could correct the most important ones in a few days.

I posted the bug list on the Arturia site forum. But I'm not on any MMV yahoo group. If you're on there, by all means post a link to this page or copy and paste the list and post it there.

-Elhardt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dalekay



Joined: Nov 16, 2003
Posts: 140
Location: Lancaster CA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ken, email me that list...
I will post it for you....

I just think that they will release a new something and drop the old one ...
I hear what you are saying, I just don't think they will.

dale
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dalekay wrote:
Ken, email me that list...
I will post it for you....

I just think that they will release a new something and drop the old one ...
I hear what you are saying, I just don't think they will.


Well, they've done 4 revisions and MMV2 can be bought at the same price now as when it first came out. ($200 street price). The way you talk though, it almost sounds like you know something I don't. So who knows.

As for the bug list, I figured you would just select all of the text in the first post of this thread, cut and paste it into your own edit window and post it to the yahoo list. It's the same thing I'd end up sending you, but if I email it to you, worldnet.att will put in carriage returns at the ends of the lines and the list will be long and narrow. If you can't do the above for some reason, then let me know and I'll email it to you.

-Elhardt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dalekay



Joined: Nov 16, 2003
Posts: 140
Location: Lancaster CA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ken, if I knew, I could not say public anyway... I don't know anything.. me or my 2 brain cells... Wink
yea I can do that, I have a Ken E box, so I like to keep a lot of your posts, esp. the info ones .. I was going to keep that as a record to go back in case they did email me back.. no big deal.. I can email to myself and put in that box for reference... bet you did not know I keep some of your posts huh? esp. then you are in teaching mode... Very Happy

dale
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dalekay wrote:
I can email to myself and put in that box for reference... bet you did not know I keep some of your posts huh? esp. then you are in teaching mode... :D


Teaching mode? I didn't know I did much of that. I usually seem to be in arguing mode when posting to lists.

-Elhardt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dalekay



Joined: Nov 16, 2003
Posts: 140
Location: Lancaster CA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elhardt wrote:
Teaching mode? I didn't know I did much of that. I usually seem to be in arguing mode when posting to lists.

-Elhardt


lately, yea... but here and there, you give good insight into things...
that is the time I grab posts... good reference material ...

dale
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Yorky



Joined: Feb 14, 2005
Posts: 244
Location: Boston, UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Does anybody actually have a sequencer-knob-to-semitone conversion table please ?
_________________
Lots of new albums at Ambientlive
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yorky wrote:
Does anybody actually have a sequencer-knob-to-semitone conversion table please ?


Not yet. You'll probably have to do one yourself by slowly turning a knob while a sequence is running and write down the knob numbers for each semitone range. It would probably look something like this:

Semitone Knob Number Range
----------- -----------------------
0 0 to 4
1 5 to 11
2 etc.....
.

-Elhardt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dalekay



Joined: Nov 16, 2003
Posts: 140
Location: Lancaster CA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ken
Have you installed the update yet to see if anything on the bug list was taken care of?

dale

_________________
dale
many links, cd baby or origo planet to find what we have for sale, myspace, facebook or reverbnation to name a few to hear what we are up to current ... Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
elhardt



Joined: May 14, 2005
Posts: 73
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

dalekay wrote:
Ken
Have you installed the update yet to see if anything on the bug list was taken care of?


I didn't know there was an update yet. I'll have to get it if there is one but am not sure if I'll have time to get it and try it before my currect DSL service ends on friday. I need to get on a new faster DSL service plan for less money and ATT is making me cancel my current service leaving me only a slow dial up connection until the new DSL gets established, so I'll probably be offline for possibly two weeks. So don't expect to hear anything from me before then.

-Elhardt
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dalekay



Joined: Nov 16, 2003
Posts: 140
Location: Lancaster CA

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

elhardt wrote:
dalekay wrote:
Ken
Have you installed the update yet to see if anything on the bug list was taken care of?


I didn't know there was an update yet. I'll have to get it if there is one but am not sure if I'll have time to get it and try it before my currect DSL service ends on friday. I need to get on a new faster DSL service plan for less money and ATT is making me cancel my current service leaving me only a slow dial up connection until the new DSL gets established, so I'll probably be offline for possibly two weeks. So don't expect to hear anything from me before then.

-Elhardt

understood
the newsletter today mention a update but only talked about vst use ...
later tonight when I get home, I will prod deeper as my serial number/login isn't at the day job... Wink

It was hard for me to believe my eyes when I saw a update mentioned in the newsletter.. Rolling Eyes
dale
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Mohoyoho



Joined: Dec 03, 2003
Posts: 1633
Location: Tennessee
Audio files: 8

PostPosted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

From the message on their website, it doesn't appear that they have done any bug updates.
_________________
Mark Mahoney
Kingsport, Tennessee
http://www.reverbnation.com/markmahoney
www.cdbaby.com/cd/markmahoney
www.cdbaby.com/cd/mmahoneympeck
http://cdbaby.com/cd/mmahoneympeck2
http://www.limitedwave.com/subterraneous/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Yorky



Joined: Feb 14, 2005
Posts: 244
Location: Boston, UK

PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

have they put the manual online yet ?

because, and don't read this if you're squeamish,
I had mine in a 'listing paper box' you know the thing,
together with several other manuals, and of course a
listing paper box is roughly the same size and shape
as a cat litter tray, and we have 9 cats ....

_________________
Lots of new albums at Ambientlive
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Page 1 of 2 [48 Posts]
View unread posts
View new posts in the last week
Goto page: 1, 2 Next
Mark the topic unread :: View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Arturia Synths
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
e-m mkii

Please support our site. If you click through and buy from
our affiliate partners, we earn a small commission.


Forum with support of Syndicator RSS
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Copyright © 2003 through 2009 by electro-music.com - Conditions Of Use