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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Thomas Henry designs
Thomas Henry Keyboard & sMs Integrated Keyboard Controller
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Sounds good, Bill - a good way to learn this stuff. Being fairly ignorant of what you're talking about, is this something anyone can program from their computer into the device?


The program file that will be generated if one is using the XC95108 is called a JEDEC file. It's represents the devices configuration or internal connections.

The device is flash memory based so one can program it over and over (within reason, after about 200,000 times, it will quit !)

There is a port on this device called the JTAG port that is basically a synchronous serial connection that will accept programming commands and will allow the JEDEC file to be "flashed" or programmed into the device.

The software to program the devices is called IMPACT and is part of a larger suite of programs called Webpack. It is available for free at this URL:

http://www.xilinx.com/ise/logic_design_prod/webpack.htm

Next, you will need a Windows based PC with a parallel port and this "downloader cable". These cables are only like $27.00 on Ebay !!
This cabke WILL work with the free software mentioned.

http://www.renaelectronics.com/ordernow-jtagblue100.html

That should answer all your questions Scott.

Bill
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Ooh, as soon as I wrote that, I must take it back - there is one quirk I rather like - the modulation comes before the portamento. So, as you increase the portamento, the modulation decreases.


Hey, yes, makes sense to me. The portamento section acts as a low pass filter ... Cool
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Right - the CV and modulation are summed before the portamento.

Aha! I see a chink in the armor - what if I want to program the part 200,001 times? Then what? Very Happy

Cheers,
Scott
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Dan Lavin



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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2007 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bill/Scott:

Thanks for the PLCC to DIP suggestion. I had checked my Mouser catalog and Digikey, but hadn't made it through the Jameco one yet....those are about the only 3 companies I use for components.....98% anyway. I was thinking about bandsawing up a couple regular breadboards to make this work!!!!

Bill: yeah, I'm still up for breadboarding this. When it's ready, let me know and i'll post my mailing address. Must do something with these keyboards piling up in the basement!

Thomas: now if you could just incorporate fingered portamento into the design......
No! save yourself for more module designs!
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here is a schematic of a "proven" downloader cable that will program many Xilinx devices, including the 95xxx series CPLD's. I know it works because I built one and it works great!


downloader_cable.pdf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  downloader_cable.pdf
 Filesize:  18.62 KB
 Downloaded:  368 Time(s)


Last edited by State Machine on Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Bill: yeah, I'm still up for breadboarding this. When it's ready, let me know and i'll post my mailing address. Must do something with these keyboards piling up in the basement!


Great, I might get away with using the XC9572 chip for this. I have the logic nearly done and it's only utilizing about 25% of the device 95108 so I may go the the 44-Pin PLCC XC9572 device instead.

I left some information on building a DL cable and also how much it is to purchase one ($27.00 plus shipping). Would you be willing to build/buy one since I may be shooting you over design files as I go through iterations of the circuit? I will supply the prototype socket, XC95xxx chip, DAC08, and TL054. I will also supply you an Original copy of Xilinx Webpack 8.1i design tool that also has the Impact programming software to connect the DL cable up to and program the CPLD via the JTAG port.

Bill
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Dan Lavin



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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bill:

yeah, I can get the cable. Although it wouldn't be too bad to build, I just don't need another project on top of the keyboard breadboarding..so I'll just buy one. Let me know your timing or give me a week notice and I'll make sure I time delivery.

I just got a new studio amp and a rack mount PC case this week, so I'm redoing my studio desk. Of course, that gives me an excuse not to record and work on circuits!
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
yeah, I can get the cable. Although it wouldn't be too bad to build, I just don't need another project on top of the keyboard breadboarding..so I'll just buy one. Let me know your timing or give me a week notice and I'll make sure I time delivery.

I just got a new studio amp and a rack mount PC case this week, so I'm redoing my studio desk. Of course, that gives me an excuse not to record and work on circuits!


OK, great. Yes, the cable is real cheap but figured if anyone wanted to build a cable, they could. I will let you know a week advance of when I send you the items. I located my Xilinx "Webpack 8.1i" disk today. I also found a XC9572 CPLD and a 44 Pin PLCC to WIRE-WRAP adapter today. This will be nice since now you can use any .1" spaced type vector board! I will supply the chip pinout with signal names identical to those used in the original schematic. I will also supply the schematic representation of the circuit internal to the IC. The actual underlying circuit is written in VHDL but will create schematic symbols of all the parts used.

This will be nice, a Thomas Henry keyboard circuit reincarnated Very Happy I will try and finish the logic next week and do as much simulation as I can.

Maybe we can get another volunteer to hang a PIC off the circuit and add MIDI to supply 3-byte NOTE ON/OFF messages (No velocity yet) ...... Idea Idea

Good luck with the new gear !! I just got a REV2496 reverb-delay processor in the mail today! Joy Joy !! I wanted a reverb unit with lots of tweaks since I have been doing some "spacey" music lately.

Chat soon ....
Bill
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Guys,

Here is what looks to be a good website for prototyping adapters!
The prices are not that bad either.

The Keyboard circuit "integration" project is what the reason is for this post.

http://smt-adapter.com/Site/Wire-wrap-sockets,,PLCC.htm

Bill


84PPLCC_WW.JPG
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84PPLCC_WW.JPG



44PPLCC_WW.JPG
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44PPLCC_WW.JPG



Last edited by State Machine on Fri Aug 31, 2007 9:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2007 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bill:

Thanks for all the technical support. If you are able to squeeze the circuit onto the 44 pin chip, you've have at least one thankful DIYer. Yeah, the midi option would be cool...down the road of course. I got to thinking about the fingered portamento. I think it might be easier to implement than I initially thought. The gate and trigger signals obviously already indicate legato vs staccato playing. A trigger could be derived from the gate signal and if both this trigger and the usual trigger is there, then no glide. If the normal trigger is there and the gate derived trigger is not there, then the glide is turned on. Glide is turned off by trailing edge of the usual gate signal. Glide turn on/off is a cmos switch in parallel with the glide pot. Well, that's just some initial thoughts and probably needs a lot of refining. I'm going to call that TH Kbd Rev 2 and the midi version Rev 3.
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Thanks for all the technical support. If you are able to squeeze the circuit onto the 44 pin chip, you've have at least one thankful DIYer.


I will see if I can synthesize the final logic into the 44 pin device. As of now, I am synthesizing for the 95108 but I may pull it off ! Cool

Quote:
Yeah, the midi option would be cool...down the road of course.


Yes, I have some private e-mails between "Blue Hell" and myself about the MIDI implementation. In fact, just in case we do add it, we are going to use an 18F PIC device running at 10 MHz. What I did was take an input of 10MHz into the keyboard scan logic I am doing and created the scan clock of 18.5 KHz at a 50% duty cycle internal to the device. This way the processor and scn logic all run from one common clock source.


Quote:
I got to thinking about the fingered portamento. I think it might be easier to implement than I initially thought. The gate and trigger signals obviously already indicate legato vs staccato playing. A trigger could be derived from the gate signal and if both this trigger and the usual trigger is there, then no glide. If the normal trigger is there and the gate derived trigger is not there, then the glide is turned on. Glide is turned off by trailing edge of the usual gate signal. Glide turn on/off is a cmos switch in parallel with the glide pot. Well, that's just some initial thoughts and probably needs a lot of refining. I'm going to call that TH Kbd Rev 2 and the midi version Rev 3.


OK, I see. Let me study this and see what I can cook up in the logic. maybe I can derive a signal for the GLIDE control switch .... Cool

Chat soo. I will send you the private chat we are having with the MIDI stuff. I don't want you to be out of the loop on that.

Bill
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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Bill:
Let me give you my email address for forwarding files, correspondence with Blue Hell, etc.: lavins49456 (/at/) yahoo dot com. Obviously replace the (/at/) with @ and the dot with the .

Thomas:
I was just scanning your book BABMS and just noticed there is no mention of diodes at the matrix points of the keyboard. Is that because of the low note priority is just looking at whatever is the lowest key or am I missing something? I should probably drag out John Simonton's Friendly Stories book and figure it out for myself but it's been a long day. I'm guessing as long as the diodes have the same orientation they shouldn't matter if I already have them on my kbd.
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

If I may...

One unmentioned benefit of Thomas' keyboard circuit is that it frees you from the inevitable oppression of the powerful diode cartel Very Happy

In other words, with this app, you don't need diodes in the matrix. What you're looking for is a particular row and column to be connected together to provide a path to ground, or, in the case of membrane type keyboards, close enough to ground potential to pull R6 low enough to cause G4 to go high.

Notice the common input of IC8 is connected to ground - when IC8 is addressed to look at a column that is connected by a pressed key to a row addressed by IC7, it provides a path to ground from R6 through IC7 and IC8. So, in this config, no blocking diodes are needed.

Cheers,
Scott
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
One unmentioned benefit of Thomas' keyboard circuit is that it frees you from the inevitable oppression of the powerful diode cartel


In my integrated version, the analog switches have been replaced by a 8-to-1 MUX and a 1-of-8 decoder. It relies on a ROW and COL to be connected and thus no diodes are required. The lowest key pressed wins as the scan counter vectors from 0 to key"n" everytime a key is pressed and released or is held.

Unfortunately, I am not able to upload anymore graphics for illustraition since my MAX upload quota of 20 MB has been reached ... Sad

Bill

Last edited by State Machine on Wed May 16, 2007 10:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

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Let me give you my email address for forwarding files, correspondence with Blue Hell, etc.: lavins49456 (/at/) yahoo dot com. Obviously replace the (/at/) with @ and the dot with the .


OK, great. Thanks .......

Bill
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
thus no diodes are required.


Viva la resistance!
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott: being in the component business myself, I can personally vouch that no one making diodes is making any money! We're doing them a favor by not using any! I did pull out my 2 books this morning and figured it out, but thanks for the good explanation for the rest of the forum members. But you do realize we are sacrificing John Simonton's 'orgasmatronic glide' arpeggiation feature!?!
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
I can personally vouch that no one making diodes is making any money!


Oh, just wait until they start turning the screws Very Happy

Quote:
But you do realize we are sacrificing John Simonton's 'orgasmatronic glide' arpeggiation feature!?!


Nothing in the memory banks about that - please elaborate! What's it do?
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Scott: on the "O"glide option, JS adds a cap between the strobe and scannot pins and runs a pot to gnd from scannot and basically creates an arpeggiator function. A parallel front panel switch turns it off when closed. Another cool feature he incorporated was a Random line where it strobes random numbers to the D/A and of course an optional pot controls the rate at which this occurs and can also make a series of ascending or descending notes. I never did incorporate either feature into my old PAIA digital keyboard....I was more interested in soloing than effects and these 2 circuits (EK-3 and 8785 Linear D/A) replaced a less than dependable double-buss sample and hold based circuit from EML.
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

State Machine wrote:
Unfortunately, I am not able to upload anymore graphics for illustraition since my MAX upload quota of 20 MB has been reached


PM mosc explaining the situation, he probably is a bit busy, so have patience.

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also .. please don't march .. we are on a bridge right now.
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

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PM mosc explaining the situation, he probably is a bit busy, so have patience.


OK, sure. Scott Stites made the suggestion as well. The 20MB limit caught me off guard Shocked I suppose you need a cap somewhere ... Very Happy

I can also ease the server load by using some of my own web space as I explained to Scott.

For sure Mosc is busy, especially with EM 07 coming up ..... Very Happy

Thanks,
Bill
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State Machine
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

OK, I have just about there with the keyboard controller logic integration. (I have been doing a bit at a time during lunch and coffee breaks) I put 16 chips into one. I am just adding in the ADDER circuit with the 0, 12 and 24 count offset for octave control. I promise I will have documentation so the chip will not become a "black box" as so many programmable IC's do become. I have instantiated all the logic into schematic symbols so it will read as a schematic would.

For future expansion purposes, I am staying with the XC95108 device since more features may be added as it evolves.

Bill
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

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since more features may be added as it evolves.


Orgasmatronic glide and digital step sequencer a la Synthi AKS? Is there a drool icon anywhere on electro-music?
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Quote:
Orgasmatronic glide and digital step sequencer a la Synthi AKS?


Unfortunately neither of these features will be able to be incorporated into this design currently. The low key priority/lack of matrix diodes prevents the former and the boolean basis of the circuit prevents the latter. Blue Hell's planned add-on Midi output PIC could potentially add a digital step sequencer if he's up to it. Fingered portamento is still an option as an add-on to the current design.

I think we need to start walking with the basic design before we start running with the options. Hopefully the walking part won't take too long for us. Sounds like Bill is well on his way for Rev 1
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2007 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

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the boolean basis of the circuit prevents the latter


Perhaps optionally buffering the parallel DAC data (as on Thomas' original design) might not be a bad idea then for future expansion?
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