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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Thomas Henry designs
mankato builds?
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Etaoin



Joined: Jun 30, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I don't think either Jameco or Digikey ship cheaply to Europe. Digikey I know for a fact are very expensive.
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softfin



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks for your suggestions Tim, etaoin and prophei Smile I asked Bridechamber about the postage cost and it is very cheap indeed!
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Etaoin



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hehe someone just posted a comment to my Mankato thingy on Youtube saying it sounds thin. I always wonder how people think they can judge these things from the crappy soond quality of Youtube...
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Tim Servo



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 3:55 pm    Post subject: mankato builds? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Etaoin wrote:
Hehe someone just posted a comment to my Mankato thingy on Youtube saying it sounds thin. I always wonder how people think they can judge these things from the crappy soond quality of Youtube...


LOL, it also makes me wonder just what criteria people use to determine "thin." Now I'm biased, so take this with a little grain of salt, but I think the Mankato is one of the best sounding filters available anywhere. Several others think so too. Oh well, maybe the guy has been listening to VAs for too long. Wink


Tim (could use to be a little thinner) Servo
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: mankato builds? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tim Servo wrote:
maybe the guy has been listening to VAs for too long. Wink


Oh oh, I should start a flame war here Wink

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Tim Servo



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:15 pm    Post subject: Mankato parts
Subject description: parts available!
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By the way, we just got our shipment of the 2164 VCA chips! The V2164 is a clone of the Analog Devices part, and has been tested in modules by Magic Smoke and several other manufacturers. Of course, we also have the tempcos. The prices are:

2k, 1/4w Tempcos -
1 piece $3.50
2 to 5 $3.00 each
6 to 10 $2.75 each
Shipping for up to 10 pieces is $1.50 to US/Canada, $2.50 to EU/UK/Aus
or free if ordered along with a Magic Smoke PCB.

2164 Quad VCA chips -
1 to 2 $3.50 each
3 to 5 $3.25 each
6 to 10 $3.00 each
Shipping for up to 10 pieces is $2.50 to US/Canada, $3.50 to EU/UK/Aus or $1.50 if ordered along with a Magic Smoke PCB.

As always, for payment we take PayPal to magsmoke@gmail.com. Thanks!

Tim (still explaining what "Magic Smoke" means to friends and neighbors) Servo
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Tim Servo



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:21 pm    Post subject: Re: mankato builds? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Tim Servo wrote:
maybe the guy has been listening to VAs for too long. Wink


Oh oh, I should start a flame war here Wink


LOL. Sorry, I thought I was on AH when I typed up that first message.


Tim (often forgets where he is) Servo
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:17 pm    Post subject: Re: mankato builds? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tim Servo wrote:
Tim (often forgets where he is) Servo


But we have perfect agreement on the youtube bit!

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Tim Servo



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:11 pm    Post subject: Re: mankato builds? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
Tim Servo wrote:
Tim (often forgets where he is) Servo


But we have perfect agreement on the youtube bit!


Absolutely! By the way, the vid is at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EsOUeHvf-8
My fave part is from about 2:40 on when the sequence is slowed down.

There's also another Mankato vid at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obVn6MeifVM
This is from Prohei and shows a Mankato, a Wogglebug (both with nifty plexiglass panels) and an 808 (amongst some other gear). This is a fun one too.

I wish the sound on YT was better, but it's still kinda fun.

Tim (gets stuck on YouTube searching for talking cat videos) Servo
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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I nearly choked on my cheerios when I read that someone described the Mankato as "thin". Maybe his laptop speakers were "thin". Laughing

I can't think of a "thicker" filter I've ever used.

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fluxmonkey



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so my wife is out of town and i've got some extra sdiy time... happily humming in the basement, finally putting the finishing touches on the 1st mankato... hum de dum... finish the panel wiring... that s&tg panel is looking good... pull out the 072s & 074s from the drawer... almost there!... open the pkg from allied and...

from elation to deflation.

uh, anyone need a couple surfacemount 2164s?

kids, don't let it happen to you... doublecheck those numbers when ordering parts. tim, magic smoke will be getting a small order from me in a few minutes.


bbob
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Tim Servo



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:49 pm    Post subject: mankato builds?
Subject description: Don't you hate it when that happens...
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bbob wrote:
so my wife is out of town and i've got some extra sdiy time... happily humming in the basement, finally putting the finishing touches on the 1st mankato... hum de dum... finish the panel wiring... that s&tg panel is looking good... pull out the 072s & 074s from the drawer... almost there!... open the pkg from allied and...

from elation to deflation.

uh, anyone need a couple surfacemount 2164s?

kids, don't let it happen to you... doublecheck those numbers when ordering parts. tim, magic smoke will be getting a small order from me in a few minutes.

bbob


D'oh! Okay, that royally sucks. I've got a couple of SMT parts sitting around too. Maybe I'll design an SMT Mankato some day. All of the parts (even the tempcos, sort of) are available in surface mount. It sure would make the PCB a lot smaller...

Tim (Surface Mankato Technology) Servo
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RF



Joined: Mar 23, 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

bbob
You are not alone. I did exactly the same thing when I ordered them. Embarassed
Doh!
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RF



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I finally got to working on the Mankato and finished it last night. Not having the polystyrene caps, I made do with what I had. I'n not all that interested in using it as an oscillator, anyway - but I'll eventually change them.

Wow! NICE filter cheers
Sounds great, & I love all the attenuators built in.
I have not had too much time to explore it all yet so a couple questions - The switchable jack near the 1v/Oct pads? Apparently it switches the keyboard input..or..

Is there any audible reason to making amplifier class switchable from the front panel? I left R(?) off the board when I built it... I know class AB is more efficient - but..ummm.. do I care in a circuit like this?
I only ask because by a quirk of my brains need for symmetry I ended up with a couple extra toggle's on the front panel. Sigh. Embarassed

Anyway - Thanks Thomas, Magic Smoke and all - Beautiful design.

bruce
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Tim Servo



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:02 pm    Post subject: mankato builds? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RF wrote:
I finally got to working on the Mankato and finished it last night. Not having the polystyrene caps, I made do with what I had. I'n not all that interested in using it as an oscillator, anyway - but I'll eventually change them.

Wow! NICE filter cheers
Sounds great, & I love all the attenuators built in.
I have not had too much time to explore it all yet so a couple questions - The switchable jack near the 1v/Oct pads? Apparently it switches the keyboard input..or..

Is there any audible reason to making amplifier class switchable from the front panel? I left R(?) off the board when I built it... I know class AB is more efficient - but..ummm.. do I care in a circuit like this?
I only ask because by a quirk of my brains need for symmetry I ended up with a couple extra toggle's on the front panel. Sigh. Embarassed

Anyway - Thanks Thomas, Magic Smoke and all - Beautiful design.

bruce


Hey Bruce,

Thanks! Glad you like the Mankato. I'm a big fan of attenuators for all inputs, so I try to make provisions for those on my designs. As far as the 1V/Oct connections, there is a "KYBD Input" connector on the PCB with CV, Gate and GND connections. The Gate is not connected to anything of course, and the CV is connected out to the front panel "1V/Oct" switching jack. This means that the Mankato tracks the CV on the KYBD Input connector unless a jack is inserted into the front panel jack. Not everybody has a CV distribution buss inside their modular, but I thought it was a (potentially) handy addition to the PCB.

As far as the class A / AB operation, I can't hear a difference with synth level signals. It's been thought that perhaps this makes more of a difference when the 2164 chip is used with line-level signals, but I've always just ended up leaving that resistor off. I really don't think I'd bother making that one connected to a front panel switch. If you really want more switches, you can put three switches for AC/DC coupling on the Audio Inputs.

Cheers!

Tim (potentially handy) Servo
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RF



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi Tim
Yea - I'm really not looking for anything else on the front panel - I put all the inputs and outputs on it, and already did include the switches for the AC/DC coupling.
It's got sufficient tactile joy already.

I guess I just got 'drill press fever' when I was marking the panel for drilling and ended up with 3 extra holes - oops. Embarassed I stuffed switches in to cover my goof rather than waste my panel...

Thanks for the reply, Tim

bruce
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Tim Servo



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:55 pm    Post subject: mankato builds? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

RF wrote:
Hi Tim
Yea - I'm really not looking for anything else on the front panel - I put all the inputs and outputs on it, and already did include the switches for the AC/DC coupling.
It's got sufficient tactile joy already.

I guess I just got 'drill press fever' when I was marking the panel for drilling and ended up with 3 extra holes - oops. Embarassed I stuffed switches in to cover my goof rather than waste my panel...

Thanks for the reply, Tim

bruce


Here's what you do with those extra unconnected switches: Invite your friends over and convince them that the sound is much fatter, thicker, organic, clear, detailed, etc. when the switches are up, while the sound is artificial and brittle with the switches down. Especially fun if you have friends who are audiophiles who own $200 speaker cables. Wink

Tim (tin ear) Servo
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ENDIF



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

My board has been built for months, and final build-out neared completion just prior to my cross country move.

3u plexi frac panel, straight BOM hardware, color coded recycled cat5 wire.

It's next up after these two envelope generators on the mat, since I already have two filters in the rack and no EG's yet.

Will post again with pix when it's done. =]

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Funky40



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: mankato builds?
Subject description: Tuning range update
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Tim Servo wrote:
I've done a little tweaking and testing myself, and have come up with some new component values. I've found that changing R37 to 220K (was 150K), and R38 to 402K (was 200K), gave me much better range with the Coarse Tune control. The Audio Range is slightly wider (goes from about 11 o'clock to 3 o'clock), and the filter will oscillate (when trimmed properly) at settings down to about 8 o'clock (assuming "0" is at 7 o'clock). Before, I had trouble getting the Mankato to oscillate at settings much lower than about 11 (o'clock, that is).


shit, i waited to long and din't remembered this !
My first Mankato is up and running, the second Faceplate ready, but shock: my 100K pots are over.

I have now audible Range from 2 o'clock............not what i like to have.
Gonna resolder this later this evening.

thanks Tim for all the excellent service here


funky ( who has still to much backlog, but has built 7 fat modules this month ) 40
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

have now R38 680K and switchable to 150K. 150K is not useful.
With 680K audible range begins at 11 o'clock.
1V/ Okt tuning is _absolutely_ impossible


IMHO, this module needs trimmers for frequenzyrange and especially for setting the base frequenzy.
A switch to get good control for Filter and LFO use, or lets say high and low range use, is IMHO a must.

I now just took the AC/DC switch , which was anyway not connected, and have it now as a switch.
One soldereye for R37 is broken............, R38 has leads soldered, so i can change Resistors as much i like.

when looking to further explanations, i assume that i must switch R38 AND R37.



quadratur VCO outputs are a funny thing, one can get nice sounds when mixing them over a polarizing mixer.t5he sound as VCO and as Filter is cool.
I like it.
looking forward to get the 1V/okt thing done
now i have patched a 1V/Okt response via CV1 input.
I had to adjust the attenuator at 10 o'Clock ( exactly 9,5minutes bevore 12 )

something is strange with my module. the Trimmers don't do much.
with REV3 resitor settings i had audible range from 12 o'clock ( R38 = 390K )
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Tim Servo



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:07 pm    Post subject: mankato builds? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Funky,

You might want to begin by double checking your parts against the latest Parts List (posted on page 1 of this thread). The things I tweaked include R37 = 220K, R38 = 402K, R42d = 200K, and R43 (the V/Oct trimmer) = 1K. R42d is the summing resistor for the dedicated 1V/Oct input. This input is labeled "CN2" (on the lower right hand corner of the PCB), and is also routed to the front panel through the connector labeled "SW JACK." Basically, the 1V/Oct input is designed for systems that have an internal distribution board for CV and Gate signals. The Keyboard CV would be routed into the 1V/OCT input and goes directly to the CV summer (without going through an attenuator like the other CV inputs). The SW JACK connector can be used to bypass the internal keyboard CV. If you don't use the 1V/OCT connector, then the keyboard CV would just go into the jack attached to the SW JACK connector. Hopefully the Panel Wiring document makes this a little clearer. I'll check my Mankato at home and see if there are any other hints I can pass along.

Cheers!

Tim (checkin' the Mankato, boss!) Servo
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Sound



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hi funky very nice front panel! is Eurorack? how hp size is? do you put the PCB perpendicular to the front panel?

I'm thinking in a dual front panel and put two PCB sandwich parallel to the front panel. palying arround the attached idea...


mankato new dual mixt2.fpd
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Tim,
i wil, check this

which resistors would you switch to get LFO/ VCO-VCF mode ?


@Sound
yes, Euro, but running on 15V PSU.
size is 28 TE
The PCB is in a 90° angle ( perpendicular? .....ahhh, yes ), and thanks
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok, 1V/Okt is running now Smile


unfortunately did i built after the prelimitary docs.
But i've read the threads and had printed out also Docs V2 and V3.
But i had after preparing myself for the Mankatobuild some Delay.
And then i stuupdly just grab one of the Docs without checking it.


ok, i soldered a 1K trimmer, and then a 5K trimmer, but it just affected the pitch, but not 1V/Okt.
It was R37 which had no contact because i lost one Soldereye when changing the Resistor.
I thought it's fine cause i soldered this then from top.
Ok, now i just scratched off the soldermask and soldered it good, and kept the 5K trimmer.
Trimming works with the 5 K trimmer, but it is somewhat fiddly.

thanks again Tim.
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Funky40



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: mankato builds? Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Tim Servo wrote:
Hopefully the Panel Wiring document makes this a little clearer..

the documentation is very good. the thing with the two 1V/Oct inputs was clear.
thanks




i tryed now to adjust the waveform.
The range of my res Trimmer seems not to be enough.
I have a 10K multiturn ( just checked )
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