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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » The layout factory
Help with stripboard layout...
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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sad

808
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okay,
I'm gonna do a stripboard layout.
Which one?
The snare?

Well, all work and no play makes Andrew go freakin nuts sometimes! Laughing
Can't promise a timeline, but I'll start soon.

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LektroiD



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Okay,
I'm gonna do a stripboard layout.
Which one?
The snare?

Well, all work and no play makes Andrew go freakin nuts sometimes! Laughing
Can't promise a timeline, but I'll start soon.


YES! Smile

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v-un-v
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-minus- wrote:

ALSO: Could you do a strip board diagram of this as I can't read schematics. Laughing


Shocked

Well you're gunna have to learn, because you really need to know both! It's not impossible to have both together, but you will need to know something- especially with all those freakin' resistors!! Very Happy

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-minus-



Joined: Oct 26, 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Okay,
I'm gonna do a stripboard layout.
Which one?
The snare?

Well, all work and no play makes Andrew go freakin nuts sometimes! Laughing
Can't promise a timeline, but I'll start soon.


Hey Uncle Krunk! It would be nice to have a snare stripboard too...

BUT... The problem here from my perspective is that the Kick is not firing. I fear what we would end up with is two circuits that we need to 'bend' to get to actually work.... unless I've made a mistake somewhere along the line. A bit of an ask, I know: What if I post you (with a return paid envelope) this kick stripboard... would you be able to plug it into something and check this firing mechanism? Getting a bit desperate here Krunkus! I mean, I can ALMOST live with it as is, as a device I muck around with, swap a few components and see what weird noises I can get out of it, but it would be nice to have it working as intended.

In the meantime if anyone else can get this happening, please post results!!!!
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey -minus-,
It sounds like Lektroid got his working.
I think you just need to go over what you're doing and make doubly sure that it's wired right. I think part of the problem may be in the way you connect it to your drum machine (which I couldn't emulate anyway)
Do you have a camera? Sometimes a pic will show up something everybody else took for granted.
Do you have photoshop (or something similar) for drawing connection diagrams?
Knowing what you're doing right (or wrong) is a process which has to be learned. If I pronounced it a functioning board, you may never learn why. I know it can be frustrating, but imagine what it was like 20 years ago when we had no internet forums?
If I had the time I would be breadboarding all three of these schems and proposing mods etc. but I don't. I will try my best to help you out though. You may have damaged something while trying options. (describe what you've tried again in a simple point form)
You do have the ground between the drum machine and the 808 voice connected?

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LektroiD



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-minus- wrote:
Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Okay,
I'm gonna do a stripboard layout.
Which one?
The snare?

Well, all work and no play makes Andrew go freakin nuts sometimes! Laughing
Can't promise a timeline, but I'll start soon.


Hey Uncle Krunk! It would be nice to have a snare stripboard too...

BUT... The problem here from my perspective is that the Kick is not firing. I fear what we would end up with is two circuits that we need to 'bend' to get to actually work.... unless I've made a mistake somewhere along the line. A bit of an ask, I know: What if I post you (with a return paid envelope) this kick stripboard... would you be able to plug it into something and check this firing mechanism? Getting a bit desperate here Krunkus! I mean, I can ALMOST live with it as is, as a device I muck around with, swap a few components and see what weird noises I can get out of it, but it would be nice to have it working as intended.

In the meantime if anyone else can get this happening, please post results!!!!


Going by past layouts, Krunkus will do a proper job of the snare, and you should be able to easily translate correct triggering for the kick from that (as it will be the same). It'll be a shame to only have the bass drum when a snare is being offered too. I'm going to wire up the accent as suggested later today, and report back. I thought your kick was now working anyway?

Maybe slacker would be kind enough to work on the hihat layout if he has time, then we'll have all 3.. Smile

I'm thinking the claves and rim might be worth investigating too, since we now know what transistors can be used for equivalents.

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-minus-



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Dear Uncle Krunkus,

Alas, I have no camera to photograph this dastardly circuit board! I shall try to locate one on loan over the next few days.

In the mean time I will do the following:

1. Check the cuts in the stripboard. Make sure they are all in the right place.
2. Check soldering. Look for bridges. Reheat all joints.
3. Check value of all components. Check jumper wires.
4. New Batteries.

I think that perhaps you are right. I am not connecting this properly in terms of firing it from the specified trigger point. Or the method I am using is incorrect. I breadboarded up the trigger link I posted earlier:
http://ericarcher.net/devices/ir-net/
This has not worked either. I suspect it may be because I am unsure what pins to connect from the TL062 (I'm substituting a TL072). Not sure how you would tell from this schematic diagram... Also, the 555/4017 sequencer thingy didn't fire it either.

THE ONLY WAY IT FIRES IS MANUALLY WITH ACCENT TIED TO (+), USING A PUSHBUTTON SWITCH WIRED BETWEEN (+) AND THE SPECIFIED TRIGGER POINT.

***I would be very interested as to how ElectroiD got it firing, and what device is being used to do so.

It's worth noting that neither the PERFBOARD, this STRIPBOARD, or a BREADBOARD version would fire. Hmmm....

Ok, what I'm going to do is the above checking of the board. I shall report findings in due course... or offer it on eBay for an alternative use of some sort. Make an interesting belt buckle perhaps?
mad, short circuit
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LektroiD



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Mine doesn't trigger the normal way either, I can only trigger it with the alternative way I posted above (which makes a massive click).

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Yes, you need to short the accent to +15V (or any voltage above say 3V) for the trigger to work.

I can't find a way of reducing the +15V down enough for the accent (when I short the accent to +15V, it kills the whole circuit). Maybe we need to build the original Accent circuit too?!

I'm hoping when the snare is designed, this will shed some light on how the trigger/accent should be wired.

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Put a 50K or 100K pot between GND and +V and then take your accent off it's wiper. You can then adjust any level of accent with that pot.

"THE ONLY WAY IT FIRES IS MANUALLY WITH ACCENT TIED TO (+), USING A PUSHBUTTON SWITCH WIRED BETWEEN (+) AND THE SPECIFIED TRIGGER POINT."
What other way are you expecting it might work? Confused This is the way it should be wired. It won't work any other way! Laughing

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-minus-



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Embarassed ummm..... well..... urrrrr...... you see..... well, let me explain....

OK, I'll admit it: I F#*%'D UP!!! (BIG TIME)

What I did (and was doing the WHOLE time), was taking my output from this 4017 thing and connecting it to the proper TRIGGER input.....

BUT....

I was taking the (-) from the 4017 and connecting it to (-) of the 808 kick... when it should go to GROUND!!!!!!!!!!!! G-R-O-U-N-D spells GROUND!!!

So if anyone wants to remove me from this forum, kill me or send me something brown and smelly in the mail, please PM me and I'll give you my address...

Really sorry everyone! Yeah, it does trigger! (with a slight click)

ACCENT to (+) *IMPORTANT!

TIP to TRIGGER

SHIELD to GROUND!!!! ...NOT (-)

I'll test what things will trigger this.... YEAH, I AM STUPID!!!! doh

...been awake for 48 hours over this! At least I can go to bed now....

....I think?

...sorry....
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Okay!
I'm going to ignore all the self put-downs and just simply ask,
Now,..... doesn't that feel better? Wink
You can't tell me you didn't learn something!
Until you've gone through a few situations like this, you're not a real technician. Everybody has been there and done that. It's how you learn. Electronics, just like any of the other ancient arcane arts, is a wealth of experience, gained through blood, sweat and tears. Each concept is built on others, and they all need to be hammered home through situations like this. Be proud of yourself! You popped out the other side, and now have a functioning circuit. Very Happy

N e x t !

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LektroiD



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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Put a 50K or 100K pot between GND and +V and then take your accent off it's wiper. You can then adjust any level of accent with that pot.


I'm using the trigger out of my DR110 drum machine to fire this circuit...

How does this look (please excuse the shabby hand drawing):


808_wirings.jpg
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808_wirings.jpg



Last edited by LektroiD on Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Spot on Lektroid.
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks Krunkus!

Yes, I have learnt a bit about things with this. Kicking myself heaps about what the problem was in the end! So simple! Had all these wires everywhere and I guess I'm used to using one 9v battery with (-) being GROUND!

Anyway, thanks everyone, Krunkus, LektroiD (any luck yet?), and Slacker for the grand stripboard contribution!

... getting back to a normal (whatever that is) sleeping pattern now...
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah...I'm back! No problems with the 808 BD though... Just thought I'd pass on a few mods I found here:

http://machines.hyperreal.org/manufacturers/Roland/TR-808/mods/

Might be worth investigating I think. It's pretty easy finding out which resistors are being referred to. Use the schematic from here:

http://ericarcher.net/2009/07/18/808-clone-projects/

...and check the ORIGINAL schematic on the bottom of the PDF and compare with the schematic on the top of the list. Anyway, I'll try these out and post findings with the resistor numbers to change from our BOM soon....
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masterfader



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I built this circuit on perf board using the original schematic. My own layout. Worked fine but i had a click when I used the trigger in and accent tied to +. To cure this, I just directly trigger into the accent circuit. Now it sounds great and more importantly NO CLICK.
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah, forgot all about this thread! When I get home I'll try your recommendation to eliminate the click. I still have a slight click but if I turn up the amp loud enough I hardly notice it.

Thanks for the tip. Been thinking about stripboarding up the snare soon...
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-minus- wrote:
Been thinking about stripboarding up the snare soon...


thumb up

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

-minus- wrote:
Been thinking about stripboarding up the snare soon...


Yeah, sorry I never got that done. Embarassed
I don't get much time for sitting in front of the computer anymore. Sad

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:

I don't get much time for sitting in front of the computer anymore. Sad


Laughing

The opposite for me, but then, I never have time to make electronic circuits up either. I've more or less put together an SN voice, but have yet to wire it up to the 'real world'....

It seems the older one gets, the more commitment one receives/ makes!

ho-hum...one day, very very soon...... Very Happy

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IST NICHT FÜR GEWERKEN BEI DUMMKOPFEN. DER RUBBERNECKEN SIGHTSEEREN KEEPEN DAS COTTONPICKEN HÄNDER IN DAS POCKETS MUSS.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

masterfader wrote:
...I just directly trigger into the accent circuit. Now it sounds great and more importantly NO CLICK.

Is that Accent input being used for anything else in this design?

In the original, the Accent was a seperate control that (AFAIK) set the amount of extra volume fed to any instrument tagged as being accented on a particular step. So theoretically that input was intended to be fed by an external Accent circuit. Not sure if it's useful for anything in this layout.
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-minus-



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

masterfader wrote:
I built this circuit on perf board using the original schematic. My own layout. Worked fine but i had a click when I used the trigger in and accent tied to +. To cure this, I just directly trigger into the accent circuit. Now it sounds great and more importantly NO CLICK.


I'm wondering how you went about triggering into the accent circuit? I'm not having much luck experimenting along these lines. Could you explain in detail what you have done? Is ACCENT still tied to GROUND? At which point on the circuit board are you taking the TRIGGER to?

I'd really like to eliminate the CLICK too. It's not too bad as it is, but it's still there. Any advice appreciated.
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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2010 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's some photos taken with a phone of the evolution of this project. Put it into a box this morning:


Tr808 01.jpg
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Tr808 03.jpg
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Tr808bd 03.jpg
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Tr808bd 03.jpg


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masterfader



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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2010 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Nice pics(minus)!. Looks like a work of art. Anyways to answer your question. I'm feeding the (accent) input of my 808 bd circuit with trigger out from my 606. I leave the 808 bd trigger in circuit alone. hope this helps.
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