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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Nord Modular G3
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Unfed



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
Unfed wrote:
... seems that everyone involved with the original Nord Modular and the G2 no longer work for Clavia/Nord. ...
Question
Who ever told you this?
Hans Nordelius, Magnus Kjellander and Bjorn Leander are still in charge of the company; at least they still are the main developers of Clavia, and there are some new ones.


sorry, i did get a bit mixed up. while i do think that i read here that some programmers or other people that worked on the G2 were no longer there, what i was mainly thinking about was related to the Nord Lead 3. a guy on another forum was recently asking about a bug in the latest OS version of the NL3 firmware. he contacted Clavia to see if this could be fixed. they wrote back saying that the person/people that wrote the software for the NL3 was no longer there and that there was no way they could fix it. they recommended that he downgrade to a previous version.

i mistakenly assumed that the programmers who worked on the NL3 software were the same people that worked on the G2 software. not sure if this is the case though, but it may be a similar situation?

either way, the fact that they totally drop all support for the NM line is absolute crap. even if they do release a G3, i wouldn't blame anyone for not buying it due to the way they've handled support for the earlier models.

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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hmmm...
If you would write NordLead2 I understand the Clavia answer, but only one minor contributor of the NordLead3 left Clavia some years ago.

The developers of the NordLead1 and 2 left Clavia almost ten years now to create a new company... Propellorhead Very Happy

Wout
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realtrance



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Actually Clavia will probably release a G3 RSN, as they always seem to do so when I'm most financially strapped. (joke)

The NM audience has always been a tiny one. Releasing an NM has therefore always been a labor of love. The kind of luxury needed to do that doesn't exist in the current economy. Things like NM, A6, V-Synth, Reaktor, really advanced synths for a niche audience..... I'm afraid we'll all have to wait for the next worldwide economic boom to see it happen.

Meanwhile there's MAX/MAX4Live, PD, SuperCollider and Moog's hardware lineup for the experimentalists. Plus all the stuff we already have.

Have you totally maxed-out everything you can do with your NM? With Reaktor? Honestly?

I haven't.

Believe though, that if I'm not destitute by then, I'll be an eager enthusiast for a G3 if it ever happens.
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ark



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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

realtrance wrote:
Have you totally maxed-out everything you can do with your NM? With Reaktor? Honestly?

No, of course not. I just wish I had something with a modular architecture that could play samples and would still work if my laptop decided to act up when I was about to go on stage.
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buzzr



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

realtrance wrote:
The kind of luxury needed to do that doesn't exist in the current economy.


It's the economy? PLEASE My business is doing fine. Nord has released 3 products during the down economy and they are doing fine as well.

Some of us, like myself would like better sounding filters, Sampler Osc's and the occasional bizarre module. Otherwise, the G2 is a nice system, one that I continue to use daily..

Last edited by buzzr on Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:58 pm; edited 2 times in total
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buzzr



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

realtrance wrote:


Meanwhile there's MAX/MAX4Live, PD, SuperCollider and Moog's hardware lineup for the experimentalists. Plus all the stuff we already have.



These programs react horribly to feedback as well. For what I do, it's a no brainer. Nord or a hardware sampler.

Computers are horrible synths unless you want to sound like an Atari. What computers do better then any synth is Sampling...
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Derek Cook



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

buzzr wrote:

Computers are horrible synths unless you want to sound like an Atari. What computers do better then any synth is Sampling...


The "computers" in my Nord G2, Yamaha EX5, etc., produce some pretty amazing sounds. Smile Likewise, the Hammond Organ emulation that I run on my "real" computer is pretty awesome.

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dasz



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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What an interesting discussion.

-----------------
G2

I was somewhat sad about the transition of the g2 into the discontinued section. I think it would be nice to get some more bugfixes from clavia for the G2, unless (like in the x0xb0x) the maxed DSP's could not support (like in the NM1), which I don't know is an issue. Maybe it's that they make a decision and stick to it, even if it hurts. They are a small company, and as far as i know a private company.

Another issue is the Motorolla DSP's used in the G2 as far as I know are no longer in production, so Clavia probably can't make more G2's even if they wanted to. Unless I'm wrong in my previous statement, this means the G2 customer base is as big as it's going to be. Small or tiny compared to the Organ, stage piano crowd. Thus our needs are not as high priority as the big crowd.

Cheap G2 LED knobs? Making hardware is hard for a small company (I worked for a small hardware company once), and akai is not a small company. akai has a big r&d department with (I bet) bigger budgets. So the APC and its knobs are far cheaper than the G2. Akai makes more new models of APC, and the G2 did not.

----------------------
G3?

So do I think there will be another Nord Modular model? I don't know, but as Wout elegantly put it, Clavia has the code, and could do it. But I don't hold my breath, and use it to sing through my G2 until it stops working, and then I have another one sitting there for me. I think this discussion is very valuable and a good source of ideas for Clavia.

G3? I think the chances of such a thing happening would greatly depend on their marketing, as I too agree that the G2 was sold more to the converts (us) than to new markets, and the marketing reflected that, and the fact that guys at music stores did not know how to sell them (from my experience in local stores in vancouver). So where does that leave this market?

Well, I have recently been observing the h/w modular market with lots of module and modular system makers producing inexpensive and expensive systems. This market exists, and it is a boutique market, small but people spend good money there, and the companies keep producing modules. And there are companies producing products that interface digital/midi/vst to analog modulars. I think this is an interesting market, and could support something Red (either by creating modules, or systems to control analog systems, or ... ??? ). Just an idea.

I think Max for Live has taken a big bite out of the potential of a G3 modular monster system, but it still could be a interesting. Only time will tell.

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jksuperstar



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I still hold to the position that it would be good for the market, the users, and Clavia to release a new NordLead4/Wave2/Modular3 as one single product. For 99% of the users, a fixed architecture, with appropriate front panel editing would be what they see and use. But, the product could have a back-door, an extended editor like the nord modular series that allows the modular community to dive in and continue our obsessive need to control the smallest of every single detail.

It would also be nice to have not only sample capability, but a performance interface that is either full step-sequencer control (16 steps, etc) or some wonderful alternative that still ties directly into the product, rather than extensive midi editing to get there.

VST plugin would be another good thing to add via USB or other Wink Once you have that, it's a very short leap to making the device act like an audio interface and midi controller (ok, the G2 can do midi controller already, but something like Novation's Automap would be incredible). All of this would open Clavia to the growing DJ market as well.

I think that would benefit everyone, and I think Clavia is one of the few companies that could do it right.
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ark



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I kind of hope that they don't build this product...because if they did, I'd have to buy one, and I don't really want to spend that much money on a new synth right now Smile
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jksuperstar wrote:
I still hold to the position that it would be good for the market, the users, and Clavia to release a new NordLead4/Wave2/Modular3 as one single product. For 99% of the users, a fixed architecture, with appropriate front panel editing would be what they see and use. But, the product could have a back-door, an extended editor like the nord modular series that allows the modular community to dive in and continue our obsessive need to control the smallest of every single detail.

This is exactly what I've suggested for a long time. It's the way the Eventide processors work. Eventide is actually a good example of how to do this right:

1) modularity neatly under the hood for those who are interested, while fully self-contained and easy to use out of the box for those who are not. And since 95% are not, ample amount of time/money investment in good preset algorithms, which are fully documented in a printed manual, as well as marketing the unit in the corresponding fashion. Don't scare the majority of prospective users away by rubbing the modular nature of the unit under their noses.
2)full backwards patch compatibility, thus building a growing library of legacy presets and hence a loyal customer following over a long time.
3)hardware upgradeability (eg., Eventide can upgrade an Orville to a full-blown H8000) and continued support for legacy products.

I suspect that the sales of the G2/Lead2/Wave are no way close to those of the Stage/Electro/Organs, so by consolidating the G2/Lead/Wave concepts into this one synth as described, they could make more money and satisfy more potential customers at the same time, thus being able to provide a longer product life cycle and customer support.
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tim wrote:
... I suspect that the sales of the G2/Lead2/Wave are no way close to those of the Stage/Electro/Organs, ...
I know the G2 and the Wave certainly don't, but keep in mind the Lead2 is still in production, more than 15 years now!

Wout
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
... but keep in mind the Lead2 is still in production, more than 15 years now!

Which doesn't say anything about the rate they are selling these days. Wink
The NL2 surely was a big seller back in the 90 when ITB DAW softsynth technology wasn't really there yet. Every studio had to have one (I had one too) as it was a real workhorse, 4-part multitimbral with 4 outputs, giving you like 4 simultaneous synths out of one box.
But that studio market has totally disappeared, which obviously is the reason why the Wave is only bitimbral, doesn't have the individual outputs anymore, offers no 19" rack version and has onboard FX -everything reduced/geared to the profile of the gigging keyboardist only -although I personally always had and have use for 4 slots and keyboard splitting in performance and hence find the Wave sorely lacking in this aspect.

This (understandable) step backwards, as well as the (less understandable) step back in terms of user interface compared to the NL3 (hailed everywhere as the synth with the best user interface ever conceived!) probably is the reason they called it "Wave" and not "Lead4" anyway.
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tim wrote:
Which doesn't say anything about the rate they are selling these days. Wink
The NL2 surely was a big seller back in the 90 when ITB DAW softsynth technology wasn't really there yet. Every studio had to have one (I had one too) as it was a real workhorse, 4-part multitimbral with 4 outputs, giving you like 4 simultaneous synths out of one box. ...
Every production 'run' has at least a trolly NL2X coming out (one trolly is 14 to 16 synths), which will leave the factory within a couple of weeks...
Ever saw the Clavia video's about their company? 30 minutes of interesting stuff...

Wout
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Tim Kleinert



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
Every production 'run' has at least a trolly NL2X coming out (one trolly is 14 to 16 synths), which will leave the factory within a couple of weeks...

Well, great to hear. Smile The NL2 seems to have the longest production life cycle of any synth in history. It can still easily stand up to the newest crop of VAs, the sound quality is really that good. I loved mine and sometimes miss it, same with the NL3.
Wout Blommers wrote:
Ever saw the Clavia video's about their company? 30 minutes of interesting stuff...

No. Sounds interesting indeed. Where can one watch this?

cheers,
t
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dorremifasol



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I find the Nord Lead 2X to be VERY expensive for what it does, but it's a wonderful synthesizer in all the senses.

Simple to use and understand, powerful in sound, it's like the MiniMoog of digital synthesizers, a true classic. I also miss it.

I'm surprised it still sells so well.

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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

tim wrote:
... Where can one watch this?
Here...

http://nm-archives.electro-music.com/Clavia_Tour/

You'll see the assembly line, the study collection, the stress room, the developers 'sweat-boxes' from a distance (No one allowed) the package rooms...
I was a few days later in the building (Noticed the packages named 'Holland' were loaded into the truck when I arrived. In the video they are still in the package room Smile)
So to date the video I suggest end februari 2009.
(I was there march 2...

What you don't see is the Clavia museum, unfortenately.
Guide is Tomas Johanson, their PR man and much more. (He is the writer of the Manual of the Modular Classic - NM1)

Wout
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buzzr



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout, thanks for the tour Smile

The most exciting part for me was the last 3 minutes. The sign that said "Nordland", showing the secret rooms where new products are being developed. Then talking about hiring two new developers, was exciting to see.

Especially if it's a new modular system. which, after seeing the factory I really doubt they are going to do any more.

They have made 3 different modulars. All of them are out of production.

After seeing that video I just don't see them doing that again...

Time to go buy a sonic core system..
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

buzzr wrote:
... After seeing that video I just don't see them doing that again... ...
What makes you think that? True, they have a limited space, but they are real masters of logistics, believe me.

For what reason they should hire more developers? Not to tell Mr. Nordelius he has a nice hair cut, but to develop, don't you think so?

Have you followed the re-run of the G2 expansion board? It's the distributors which are the bottle neck, because they have to buy the newly instruments first. And they have to convince the retailers to offer it to the customers. At least the shops were always the ones who didn't understood the Modulars.

Clavia knows they have some great ideas, but can they sell it? At this moment? The pianos and organs, although not that cheap, are their life lines in today’s crisis and a modular isn't. And are they doing a bad job? Well, in television broadcasts and video clips more and more red appears, so they are running well. So it will be only a matter of time the recourses have to be refilled with new ideas, simple because they are an innovating company. BTW at least one of the two new developers is hired.

Interesting to know Clavia’s best selling modular was the Micro, although it had the smallest margin possible.

Where does this leave the costumers?
Indeed, if your creativity is frustrated because Clavia doesn't provide new gear which you need, just buy other brands. You would look silly if you don't do that.

How to get a G3 or another synth?
Simple: go to any shop which sells synthesizers and ask for a synth which can do such or so things. Ask the question: “Not even a Nord can’t do that?” Try to motivate other synth users to do the same.
Push the retailer to ask the distributor. After some time they will ask Clavia to produce your dream…
What happened to the expansion boards can happen again Smile

And what should one not do?
Complaining about a factory which doesn’t deliver what you want. Just realize even Swedish are humans too! Well, even the remark about a couple of days off from work to give birth to a child doesn’t change this fact Wink Just a tip: Clavia is rather sensitive to humor…

Or organize a demonstration carrying red flags in front of the building in the photograph…

Wout


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dorremifasol



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thatks for the videos! they're great Smile

I wish I could work in a place like that. I'm a bit tired of videogames by now...

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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I did not make these video's.
It's a tour special for distributors and somehow it came up on the Internet.
I had a tour just for myself (and son + wife) Wink
I even did not create the picture above! Shocked

Wout
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dorremifasol



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yes, but you provided the links for us, so thanks again. Smile
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

And most curious: there is always someone at Clavia who can speak Dutch!

Wout
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G2Psy



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout, you are Clavia's greatest fanboy. Have they issued a stalking order against you yet?

I love it, keep it up!
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veta



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PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:

Interesting to know Clavia’s best selling modular was the Micro, although it had the smallest margin possible.


interesting. never would have guessed that.

if they are having trouble releasing a G3, perhaps they should release it only in 'engine' form, or as a striped down rack module with a display & some knobs. let the user decide what interface they want to pair it with. better it released in that form than not at all.

i can see given the current economic conditions them not being able to release a G3 in the near future, what i CAN'T excuse however is the lack of support for the existing G2. long-standing bugs that have never been addressed, etc... this is the exact same mistake they made with the original modular. to make the same error twice in a row is unbelievable and quite damaging to their reputation.
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