Doepfer/Analogue Systems ? which VCO's ?

Patchmouse · Joined: Sep 27, 2006 Posts: 140 Location: London

Hi, I've been talking to a few people about my modular, and varying opinions have been expressed about the sound of VCO's from different manufacturers.
I will be using my system for abstract sounds all of the time, so I'm not particulally worried about getting "warm" "fat" sounds etc, or "screaming leads" ! Also, stability isn't an issue, instability could actually be useful to me. But it would be good to know the strengths and weaknesses of VCO's from different companies, any help would be much appreciated.

Take care,

Tony.

elhardt · Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 73 Location: USA

Doepfer's low-end VCO has the least pure sinewave I've ever seen. It's triangle wave has a deep spike in the middle of it creating a high pitched buzzing sound. It's also quite unstable, drifting around and not very easy to keep in tune.

Doepfer's hi-end VCO has much more pure and accurate waveforms, is much more stable, and also has Linear FM and Softsync inputs which the low-end doesn't have. It also costs about twice as much.

You'd have to compare that info with the AS VCO which I don't own.

-Elhardt

ian-s · Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject:

elhardt · Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 73 Location: USA

Patchmouse · Joined: Sep 27, 2006 Posts: 140 Location: London

Hi, the Doepfer high end VCO and the AS VCO seem like the best choice for me, even though I said they would be used for abstract sounds, pure waveforms are also desirable. Soft-sync is a good option, I also have a Micron and it does work well on that, but then again, its a special synth, capable of some very interesting sounds indeed, it can sound nothing like a synthesiser sometimes, very "organic" undefinable really.
I'm looking forward to the freedom that my modular will give me, hopefully I'll be able to go far beyond the cappabillities of the Micron, especially in the LFO department.

Than for all your help,

Tony.

elhardt · Joined: May 14, 2005 Posts: 73 Location: USA

Patchmouse · Joined: Sep 27, 2006 Posts: 140 Location: London

Hi elhardt, yes, but I think some synthesisers seem to have an "organic" factor mor than others. My favorites are the Prophet 5, my lovely DX7, the Micron/Ion (much like the PRO5) and the Nord G2 Modular.
They are all capable of some very unfathomable sounds. I have always disliked the coldness of the synthesiser, it only works for me if its totally distressed and made to sound more "accoustic/organic, or dirty. I'm loosing myself a bit here, but I'm sure you know what I mean. I'm still in two minds about the Doepfer VCO's, I think I would be better off with a mixture, of the cheaper ones and the high-end types.

Tony.

Per · Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:34 am Post subject:

I have both types of Doepfer VCOs in my modular, as well as VCOs from Analogue Systems, Cwejman and Plan B.
The Cwejman VCO 2-RM with two VCOs and a ring modulator is a favorite if you are into abstract sounds, as the cross modulation is pre patched and sound very well. The RM also preform good, and accepts both AC and DC inputs. Expensive, but a lot of features.
If it is down to frequency modulation, both the AS RS-90 and the Plan B is better than the Doepfer, with more nuances in the FM area.
If I should build up a new modular, I would definitely go for the Plan B. The only big drawback is the lack of an octaves switch, but it sounds lovely.

Per

Jari Jokinen · Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:14 am Post subject:

Has anyone compared Analog Systems latest oscillator RS95e and PLAN B Model 15? I am particularly interested in waveshaping - Plan B does "only" cross-fading, but apparently very well.

I intend to put my first system into a RS15 case.

Best regards
Jari Jokinen

Per · Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:23 am Post subject:

To put the Plan B (as I think is an excellent VCO, superior to the RS-95) in a AS rack gives you the following problem: The Doepfer style connections on the AS power rack do not fit the power connector of the Plan B. The only way it can fit gives the wrong polarization in power, releasing magic smoke from the module, and a strong head ache.
So if you want a AS rack, you can´t use the Plan B without DIY connections to avoid the problem. But in a Doepfer rack, everytning works out fine.
I may be wrong, but I guess the new AS VCO has the same core as the old RS-95 but with some new features as fine tune capabilites.
Per

Jari Jokinen · Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:38 am Post subject:

Jari Jokinen · Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:50 am Post subject:

I found this:
http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/PLAN_B_analog_blog/message/226?threaded=1&p=2
There seems to be no problem, if care is taken.

Per · Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject:

This is how it is done: The Doepfer style male power connectors in AS rack has a plastic frame, making it impossible to put a Plan B module power cord into it the right way. Belive me, I have tried. So, for mixing Doepfer comaptible gear, use the Doepfer rack.
Besides, I have had bad experiences of using even regular Doepfer units in AS racks, and is a bit suspicious about that hardware,
Per

synthbaron · Joined: Oct 21, 2006 Posts: 21

synthbaron · Joined: Oct 21, 2006 Posts: 21

Funky40 · Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 2:31 am Post subject:

@Patchmouse

I have no one of this VCOs at the moment (only Curetronic), but i tryed to figure out the last 6 months wich are the best (for me).
I think for your wishes too, the Plan B is a very good choice.
I 'll also take one or two of those ..........

As told to me, and also sayd in this thread: They should be very interesting for FM ( and as i understood also for proper sine waves )

Jari Jokinen · Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:23 am Post subject:

Here is response from Plan B:

"Please post this on the EM forum:

I guess you know you're somebody when rumors start popping up!

There was a certain amount of incombatibility built into Analogue Systems'
chassis for the simple reason that they elected to use key'd connectors on
their chassis sockets when Doepfer did not. This does not by any means
make this a bad idea...these terminals should be made in a fashion that
stops individuals from plugging them in backwards. However, it did
introduce a polarity issue that wasn't there before.

Analogue System's racks require that the buss end of the power cable be
prepared so that when looking at it with the socket holes pointing away
from you (the 'back' of the connector), the polarizing key should face out
and the red band should be up. We try to to this with every cable we make
- it is 'normal' Plan B procedure that we do. However, sometimes we screw
up on this.

If you have a power cable that isn't fashioned in this manner, feel free
to contact us, we will send you one that is. You can also make your own,
as the ribbon cable and IDS16 connectors are what is called 2AM parts -
meaning they are readily available at all local electronic shops, i.e.,
very easy to find. All you'll need is a pair of scissors to make a nice
clean cut of the ribbon cable and either a vise, or a pair of channel-lock
pliers to crimp the connector down. Just press down intil it's snug, then
one little push after that. Don't overdo it - your're not tightening a
nut, you're fitting a plastic locking key past a retaining bar. Some
brands of connectors click then this happens, some do not.

Also resist the tempation to use dikes to cut the cable - if the cutting
blades aren't long enough to go through the intire cable in one cut,
mutliple snips run a risk of causing wire strands to project out from the
housing and coming in contact with each other, introducing a potentially
damaging short between pins.

There are no power incompatiblities with Plan B products and A. Sys racks
other than that. Do be careful howerver. One Doepfer racks, the red band
points down. On A. Sys rack, the red band points up.

- Peter Grenader"

Jari Jokinen · Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 3:27 am Post subject:

Jari Jokinen · Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:31 am Post subject:

OK.

1. Plan B Model 15 sounds good.

2. It can be made to work in Analogue Systems R15 case one or another way.

3. The quality issues with the soccets are being addressed by Plan B.

4. One should have a look at the picture posted by SynthBaron. I see it is not made by robots, but otherwise I am clueless.

5. The PWM and morph knobs are peculiar:
From forum:
"I have two of the Model 15 oscillators, both of which have pots that behave a bit oddly -- the "morph" pot seems to jump from pure sine wave to the secondary waveform pretty instantly (not a smooth transition at all).
Also on one of them the pulse width knob only ranges from around 4 to 6; it's silent if you turn it further in either direction. The pulse width on the other kicks in at around 2-3 and runs fine all the way to totally clockwise."
and:
"...[PWM] works between the 10-3 positions, but Ithink you need to have an wave inputted above the PMW dial?."

Questions: Do you get precise manual control over pulse width with no modulation applied (important for me)? Why is the knob labeled PWM instead of PW?

Best regards
Jari Jokinen

Per · Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:27 am Post subject:

The manual control knob gives good and precise PW adjustment on Plan B, I can´t see any problems with that one.
On AS subject: I have had really bad experiences of them. I bought a AS rack, and the RS-290 Delay/sampler. Connectiong it in the rack resulted in magic smoke and a dead delay as well as a bown fuse in the rack.
I returned it for warranty repair.
They came back after some months. The Delay/Sampler was not dead, but malfunctioning, it was only in sampler mode.
I returned it aganin, but the AS refused to fix it. In the end, the retailer, TBS in Germany, sent me a new one.
My AS rack is OK for AS modules, but when I put Doepfer modules in it, it instatly burn them. And as they have this plastic frame on the connections, mistakes in polarity with Doepfer units is impossible. And this remains, even after I did send the whole rack for repair. I did burn one Doepfer reverb unit and one CV-midi converter in that rack.
Maybe the retailer did not send the rack for repair, I don´t really know, but if you ask me, I will not go use the AS racks for anything but AS modules.
Regards
Per

synthbaron · Joined: Oct 21, 2006 Posts: 21

synthbaron · Joined: Oct 21, 2006 Posts: 21

Reguarding the Plan B's pulse width, mine also had a very limited front panel range. Peter says that this is because it can be modulated farther than 0 and 100% width. But that's no excuse not to offer the full range on the front panel pot (I'm sure this is an easy modification, if one wishes).

Also, my Plan B oscillator did not go down to LFO mode via the front panel controls. Whether it's designed that way, or related to a manufacturing defect, I don't know.

synthbaron · Joined: Oct 21, 2006 Posts: 21

Funky40 · Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2006 12:11 pm Post subject:

yeah, i use my Moog Ladder from dotcom for sine waves.
But that this are better than this from VCOs i did not knew.
But i understand now why i like this sound so much

My Dotcom Ladder don't tracks the Keyboard proper actually.
just a short Range between 1 or 2 Oktaves is possible.
(so i just sequenced it, but since having BBDs i anyway just make music out of any tune)

synthbaron · Joined: Oct 21, 2006 Posts: 21