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 Forum index » Instruments and Equipment » Nord Lead and Nord Wave synths
Need help restoring a performance patch in NORD LEAD2X !
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POGphile



Joined: Oct 04, 2008
Posts: 17
Location: Phoenix

PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:11 pm    Post subject: Need help restoring a performance patch in NORD LEAD2X ! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

HI all.

First, I read the forums. I have NordGEN editor, MIDI-OX software. I downloaded the smf file from Clavia website and patches from http://nm-archives.electro-music.com/020_NordLead2/021_Patches/ HOW do I find that single performance patch anyway?

I cannot find a single sys or mid file for the patch I need (performance A9 on nord lead 2x). I have edited patches on my keys that I want to keep. I just need to replace the factory setting single patch.

....or at least if someone can tell me how to duplicate that sound, what settings on filters and such...

thanks
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Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It's a bit troublesome...

Two things first:
1 you can't use NordGen to handle Performances, because it was never implemented and
2 in the EM Archive there are no Performances, only Programs, due to the mentioned tool above Smile

I don't own a NL2X and I noticed the memory is different from the other two models (NL and NL2). Although the sounds are the same (Clavia used the already existing data - NL1 & 2 Factory Programs is NL2X ProgramBank1) the names are different. The other 9 Banks are those from the PCMIA cards, but also using different names and locations.

My solution...
Another NL2X user could make a Midi Dump One recording in a special track in a sequencer program and save (or export) this as a *.mid file.
This has to be loaded by you also using a sequencer (open or import) and send it to the NL2X to override the location in you memory.
When using a complete Bank upload beware this is 'saved' to the memory as 'all one go', so you'll lose maybe other Performances too...

Wout
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Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

For your interest...

A single NordLead1, 2 & 2X Program is exactly 139 bytes;
a single Performance is about 770 bytes and
a Performance Bank is about 72.000 bytes (72 kB)

Always check before uploading...

Wout
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POGphile



Joined: Oct 04, 2008
Posts: 17
Location: Phoenix

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:

My solution...
Another NL2X user could make a Midi Dump One recording in a special track in a sequencer program and save (or export) this as a *.mid file.
This has to be loaded by you also using a sequencer (open or import) and send it to the NL2X to override the location in you memory.
When using a complete Bank upload beware this is 'saved' to the memory as 'all one go', so you'll lose maybe other Performances too...

Wout


Thanks, that's what I was thinking too.

I will email Clavia to see if they can email me a single midi file.

They really should have them available individually for download.


BTW, do you think it's possible to extract a single command MIDI from the whole bank midi file. I was trying to make some sense of it, the numbers/letters don't seem to correspond to same designation as on the keyboard banks.
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POGphile



Joined: Oct 04, 2008
Posts: 17
Location: Phoenix

PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Wout Blommers wrote:
For your interest...

A single NordLead1, 2 & 2X Program is exactly 139 bytes;
a single Performance is about 770 bytes and
a Performance Bank is about 72.000 bytes (72 kB)

Always check before uploading...

Wout


Question the only file clavia.se has to download for 2x is called internal.smf and it has 5.59KB. Too small to contain performances. I guess it's a program bank only. Sad Great... so they don't even give a chance to reset the factory settings for performances.
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Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
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Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'll write to them and ask for a dump.

BTW it's is possible to dump just one file. Just select the Performance you need and record it in a sequencer, cut away most non data and export it (save) to the harddisc.

Wout
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fischek



Joined: May 07, 2007
Posts: 81
Location: Belgrade

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have NL2X and can help with the performance if you want (in case I haven't overwritten the one you need).
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POGphile



Joined: Oct 04, 2008
Posts: 17
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fischek wrote:
I have NL2X and can help with the performance if you want (in case I haven't overwritten the one you need).


Awesome !

The one I need is performance A9.

Thanks in advance !
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fischek



Joined: May 07, 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ok, I'll give it a try when I get back from work...9:30 am where I live.
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POGphile



Joined: Oct 04, 2008
Posts: 17
Location: Phoenix

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fischek wrote:
Ok, I'll give it a try when I get back from work...9:30 am where I live.


right, EUROPA

12:40 am in Phoenix, Arizona, US

talk to you later, bro !
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fischek wrote:
I have NL2X and can help with the performance if you want (in case I haven't overwritten the one you need).
Hi fischek,

Can you also help me with the complete NordLead2X Banks?
sEE: http://electro-music.com/forum/topic-29372.html

Wout
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fischek



Joined: May 07, 2007
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Location: Belgrade

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

hey Wout,

Of course I can help, but I've been overwriting some of the stuff already.
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fischek wrote:
hey Wout,

Of course I can help, but I've been overwriting some of the stuff already.
Surely, because otherwise you wouldn't be using your synth right Smile
First of all the ROM can't be changed, so this could be a start.
As a try out I would suggest only one Bank in *.mid or something alike to see if it will work out, e.g. let's pick ROM Bank 4
The RAM Banks I will collect in time, maybe with the help of Clavia or the Dutch distributor.

Wout
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fischek



Joined: May 07, 2007
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Location: Belgrade

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok, we can give it a go later when I come home - do you have an IM?
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fischek wrote:
... do you have an IM?
Well, just because you have to tell me what an IM is, I have to answer: NO? Confused

Wout
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Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well, there's always Google! You mean 'Instant Messaging', I believe. No, I haven't. Got e-mail blommoo [ape-tail] wanadoo.nl or you can PM me.

Or does IM mean 'In Memoream', a text to remember me after I died Wink

Wout
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fischek



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nah Smile you got it right the first time Wink
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POGphile



Joined: Oct 04, 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

so once I have the single perfromance patch I can use midi-ox to send it to the keyboards without overwriting anything else,
it will put in the buffer and then needs to be saved

cool, now I just need the patch, our first show is in 10 days and I really need it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please anyone !

You can hear it that patch being used in a song called Situation at 2:47 on www.myspace.com/emlamusic

I know that it uses program 1.03 on A and B, but I cannot tweak the controls to make it sound like the original - I'm musician not a synth programmer... and just recently started to use synths
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fischek



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry pal - I had a lot of work today, but I said I would do it so here it is. It's not a dump recorded in a sequencer because I don't know how to do that.

I've asked Wout to help, but didn't want to keep you waiting in the meantime. I've extracted the two variants of 1.3 patch which is what makes the A9 performance as 2 different patches called 1 and 2 (hopefully those are attached to this message).

So, what you need to do is send them back one by one as single patches and create a performance out of them i.e. put them back in your A9. I hope this helps. If not, Wout will provide further info.

Cheers


1.ngf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  1.ngf
 Filesize:  278 Bytes
 Downloaded:  74 Time(s)


2.ngf
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  2.ngf
 Filesize:  417 Bytes
 Downloaded:  77 Time(s)

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POGphile



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fischek wrote:
Sorry pal - I had a lot of work today, but I said I would do it so here it is. It's not a dump recorded in a sequencer because I don't know how to do that.

I've asked Wout to help, but didn't want to keep you waiting in the meantime. I've extracted the two variants of 1.3 patch which is what makes the A9 performance as 2 different patches called 1 and 2 (hopefully those are attached to this message).

So, what you need to do is send them back one by one as single patches and create a performance out of them i.e. put them back in your A9. I hope this helps. If not, Wout will provide further info.

Cheers


Thanks. I will try it out. So do these 1.3 variants contain further performance tweaks? Because I tried using the 1.3 programs on A and B and couldn't get them to sound like the original performance patch.

I think you can dump a single performance patch if you go on that performance A-9 and shift/dump one.
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fischek



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

See, that's where things can be a bit confusing. You can have one 1.3 patch in a single mode and then you can have unlimited number of variants of that patch within performances (did I get this right Wout ? Smile).

The original A9 performance actually consists of two different versions of 1.3 which are not the same as original 1.3 you find in the single mode. Have you tried the files I've sent you? I've extracted them from the A9 performance, so you could get the same result when putting them back to your synth.
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fischek wrote:
See, that's where things can be a bit confusing. You can have one 1.3 patch in a single mode and then you can have unlimited number of variants of that patch within performances (did I get this right Wout ? Smile).
Not exactly!
Quote:
The original A9 performance actually consists of two different versions of 1.3 which are not the same as the original 1.3 you find in the single mode. Have you tried the files I've sent you? I've extracted them from the A9 performance, so you could get the same result when putting them back to your synth.
The original A9 Performance once consisted of a Program called '1.3'. This doesn't mean it is the same as the Program known as '1.3' in the memory of the NL2X! Maybe it was on a personal PCMCIA-card of the sound designer using a NL2, who knows? The actual Program was saved in the 'lost' Performance A9. The memory of the NordLead is a non destructive one, so no Programs will be changed when used in a Performance.

Further more constructing the Performance using a single Program doesn't cover all the parameters used (and saved) in the original file, because a Performance contains some global settings too, see [Manual page 36]. As an example the detuning of the Unison; during a recording session you want to change this, so could be very handy to save a single Program twice in Performance mode, each time with a different detuning value, so changing the Performance only changes this parameter. (No need to use [Shift+3xSystem] > scroll to the value > [Shift])

So to recover NL2X-A9 we really need a original A9... Sad

Wout
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Wout Blommers



Joined: Sep 07, 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

POGphile,

The fasted way to recover your A9 Performance is to take your NL2X, together with a Midi cable, to your dealer, plug your cable in the Midi Out of the dealers synth and to the Midi In of your synth, select on both Performance A9, press on the dealers synth [Shift+Dump One] and save the file in your synth...

Wout
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fischek



Joined: May 07, 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I am not sure I understand and you probably didn't understand what I was saying either...

Forget about the original 1.3 in a single mode...I was using that as an example...obviously not a very good one. I know 1.3 single mode has nothing to do with 1.3 patch within the performance. Those two are like two different patches. That is why I was extracting the 1.3 from the A9 performance in the first place.

The other thing is...the A9 performance consists of two instances of 1.3 which have different settings, which is why I have extracted them as 2 single *different* patches and uploaded them here...

Makes anymore sense now?
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Wout Blommers



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

fischek wrote:
I am not sure I understand and you probably didn't understand what I was saying either...

Forget about the original 1.3 in a single mode...I was using that as an example...obviously not a very good one. I know 1.3 single mode has nothing to do with 1.3 patch within the performance. Those two are like two different patches. That is why I was extracting the 1.3 from the A9 performance in the first place.

The other thing is...the A9 performance consists of two instances of 1.3 which have different settings, which is why I have extracted them as 2 single *different* patches and uploaded them here...

Makes anymore sense now?
Yes! We both are saying the same thing Very Happy Only uploading these two single files doesn't cover all the Performance settings, which is illustrated on [Manual page 36]. These are only in the original A9 Performance file. Hopefully there aren't any differences between the newly uploaded one and the original (softly speaking voice... most sound designers didn't bother with these kind of things when constructing the Performances in the first place... Wink)

Wout
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