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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24396
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 296
G2 patch files: 320
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 Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject:
Subject description: Q! |
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| qfingers wrote: | | The uprate is what tells modules when to use audio rate processing instead of control rate. |
Yes I got that aspect, I guess that the question was more like, why would you bother ? to get the cable colors OK ? For a moment I was thinking the G2 editor would fix that, but probably not, I think now.
| Quote: | | There are minor corrections I had to make but was no big deal. |
When you could at some stage inform me about those errors I'd appreciate that, as it would allow me to make the documentation up to date. When however your priorities are somewhere else I'd understand 
| Quote: | | By the way, that example code is all that is needed to convert a module now. |
It looks pretty readable to me (after just reading the python intro stuff), in the sense that the code seems self documenting. That can't be a feature of python, you're doing a great job I think !
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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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qfingers
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Tucson, AZ
G2 patch files: 2
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:11 pm Post subject:
Subject description: Q! |
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| Blue Hell wrote: |
Yes I got that aspect, I guess that the question was more like, why would you bother ? to get the cable colors OK ? For a moment I was thinking the G2 editor would fix that, but probably not, I think now.
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It looked strange, like the module was functioning in control mode, but had audio rate signals connected. I've seen similar things with the editor and control-logic to audio-logic input signal. They don't always return to the control-logic rate after it's been disconnected. I think it's a bug. Which gets me to thinking. I nice feature/module for the next OS update would be a audio to control rate converter. I've had times where I wish I could run the signal at control rate with an input of audio rate. It would decrease CPU resources for those modules.
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When you could at some stage inform me about those errors I'd appreciate that, as it would allow me to make the documentation up to date. When however your priorities are somewhere else I'd understand
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I really hacked your file. I changed all the names to lowercase and changed some of the names. I will send you them though. It may be a quick fix in a decent editor (vim is my choise).
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It looks pretty readable to me (after just reading the python intro stuff), in the sense that the code seems self documenting. That can't be a feature of python, you're doing a great job I think ! |
Thanks! The code is pretty cool eh? I'll have you converted to python soon enough. I'm guessing you'll want to get involved when I get further along.
I split out all the converter objects into separate files for ease of maintainence. I grouped them the same as the NM1 tab bar to make it easier. I'm working on the In/Out group. I'll make my way through that, then to Osc, LFO, etc.. I'm going to skip the really complicated ones for now. Keyboard Patch was kinda ugly as it needed Keyboard, Status, and 3 Delayed Clock modules so I could get the Last * outputs. What a pain.
Anyways, back to coding. It's getting easier now.
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cappy2112
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2490
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:26 pm Post subject:
Subject description: Q! |
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It looks pretty readable to me (after just reading the python intro stuff), in the sense that the code seems self documenting. That can't be a feature of python, you're doing a great job I think ! |
Actually, simplicty and readability are some of Python's strengths. |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24396
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 296
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:36 pm Post subject:
Subject description: Q! |
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| cappy2112 wrote: | | Actually, simplicty and readability are some of Python's strengths. |
un-mess-upable 
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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cappy2112
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2490
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:38 pm Post subject:
Subject description: Q! |
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | cappy2112 wrote: | | Actually, simplicty and readability are some of Python's strengths. |
un-mess-upable |
After a few lines of Python, you'd never go back to Perl  |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24396
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 296
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:49 pm Post subject:
Subject description: Q! |
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| cappy2112 wrote: | | After a few lines of Python, you'd never go back to Perl |
Even without that I'd not ... I have like maybe a few thousands lines of perl on my companies server to maintain, that's not really like much, and I hate it, I hate it, I 
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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qfingers
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Tucson, AZ
G2 patch files: 2
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:55 pm Post subject:
Subject description: Q! |
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| Blue Hell wrote: | | cappy2112 wrote: | | After a few lines of Python, you'd never go back to Perl |
Even without that I'd not ... I have like maybe a few thousands lines of perl on my companies server to maintain, that's not really like much, and I hate it, I hate it, I |
Yes, but I've seen python code that is pretty ugly too. I was looking at the linux hack to handle input from a WiiRemote using bluez (linux bluetooth library) and pybluez. What a mess. It has lots of information in comments spread across arrays and functions, but it made the code really difficult to read. So you can poorly in python. I choose not to.
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Afro88
Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 701
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Audio files: 12
G2 patch files: 79
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:27 pm Post subject:
Subject description: Q! |
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Awesome job again qfingers. I wish I could help out, but I'm not much of a coder.
| qfingers wrote: | | It looked strange, like the module was functioning in control mode, but had audio rate signals connected. I've seen similar things with the editor and control-logic to audio-logic input signal. They don't always return to the control-logic rate after it's been disconnected. I think it's a bug. Which gets me to thinking. I nice feature/module for the next OS update would be a audio to control rate converter. I've had times where I wish I could run the signal at control rate with an input of audio rate. It would decrease CPU resources for those modules. |
If I get what you're asking, look no further than the NoteQuantize module set to it's default values. |
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qfingers
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Tucson, AZ
G2 patch files: 2
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Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:34 pm Post subject:
Subject description: Q! |
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| Afro88 wrote: | | If I get what you're asking, look no further than the NoteQuantize module set to it's default values. |
A little hackish, but it does the job. Cool!!!
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 24396
Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 296
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:41 pm Post subject:
Subject description: Q! |
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Had overseen this one completely (was making some avi composer thingy yesterday, think the boss will be happy tomorrow).
| qfingers wrote: | | They don't always return to the control-logic rate after it's been disconnected. I think it's a bug. |
Don't know, it's a feature sometimes as well I think. But you have to "break the loop" to return to control rate.
| Quote: | | I really hacked your file. I changed all the names to lowercase and changed some of the names. I will send you them though. |
Ok, thanks in advance.
| Quote: | | I'll have you converted to python soon enough. I'm guessing you'll want to get involved when I get further along. |
Who knows
| Quote: | | I'm going to skip the really complicated ones for now. Keyboard Patch was kinda ugly as it needed Keyboard, Status, and 3 Delayed Clock modules so I could get the Last * outputs. What a pain. |
Guess you could post some as interesting puzzles for the community ?
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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qfingers
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Tucson, AZ
G2 patch files: 2
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Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject:
Subject description: Q! |
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| Blue Hell wrote: |
| qfingers wrote: | | They don't always return to the control-logic rate after it's been disconnected. I think it's a bug. |
Don't know, it's a feature sometimes as well I think. But you have to "break the loop" to return to control rate.
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I think it would be better to allow the user to turn on/off things like this. Yes it's nice to be able to change the rate. But I would prefer a less "backwards" way to do it.
| Blue Hell wrote: |
| qfingers wrote: |
I really hacked your file. I changed all the names to lowercase and changed some of the names. I will send you them though. |
Ok, thanks in advance.
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I am changing some of the params of patch303.txt to closer match the G2. It allows an easier convertion process. For example, instead of FMA, and FMB for oscillators, I'm changing it to Fm becuase it easier for me to remember and it helps in sharing code. I can still make adjustments to the parameters, I just prefer a standard naming scheme.
| Blue Hell wrote: |
| qfingers wrote: |
I'm going to skip the really complicated ones for now. Keyboard Patch was kinda ugly as it needed Keyboard, Status, and 3 Delayed Clock modules so I could get the Last * outputs. What a pain. |
Guess you could post some as interesting puzzles for the community ? |
Well, I think I'm going to do a quick (not so quick) setup of all the modules and converters correct or incorrect, implemented and not implemented. Then post the code. Because the module converter is more or less self contained, people who want to get involved can help write, correct, and bug fix the module converters. I will have enough examples to help in the conversion process. Plus I can offer help for really esoteric conversions. Because I would like to start working on the optimizations.
I have to search the cables netlist (which is build when the patch is loaded) and write an algorithm to automatically update the "uprate" parameter (the one that changes processing of control signals to processing audio signals). I also want to add a handling a configuration file so customizations can be done to the patch after it's been converted (or during). Some things may just be easier to handle that way then trying to code and algorithm to handle the really weird connections and parameter settings. Lastly, I wanna at least handle removing the Mst/Slv cables when they are only tied together.
I'm wondering if another thread may be better since this one is full of many other non-converter code related issues. How about a separate discussion on the converter? So there can be a topic per NM1 module with changes, fixes, opinions, etc. And one for the main converter for optimization ideas. Why do you guys think? I think this kind of information should be kept together (and hopefully organized). And there is alot of it.
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tombola
Joined: Mar 11, 2005
Posts: 84
Location: London
Audio files: 3
G2 patch files: 9
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:59 am Post subject:
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This is really exciting, again.
How long before you can post comparison audio samples - the original patch on a G1, the converted patch on a G2?
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Kassen
Janitor
Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:20 am Post subject:
Subject description: Q! |
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| Blue Hell wrote: |
| Quote: | | I'm going to skip the really complicated ones for now. Keyboard Patch was kinda ugly as it needed Keyboard, Status, and 3 Delayed Clock modules so I could get the Last * outputs. What a pain. |
Guess you could post some as interesting puzzles for the community ? |
I could have a look at that, some time ago I did a lot of thinking about modular polyphony (and related matters).
This does give me a idea, maybe in the interest of optimisation (of the G2 load, not Python's...), the harder, more elaborate conversions could use conditionals. It makes no sense to make a big sub-patch to emulate a afeature that may not get used. In the same vein; patches in the NM that use loads of logic could probably be simplified on the G2 which has some more logical processors, I think.
That would involve some fairly heavy duty logic to get it to work though.
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dasz
Joined: Oct 16, 2004
Posts: 1644
Location: victoria, canada
Audio files: 29
G2 patch files: 56
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:29 am Post subject:
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qfingers,
a thought occured to me. if some conversions require building blocks, then the patches which do not exceed 100% on a NM Classic, may exceed 100% on a G2.
also, instead of you decoding & coding all the innards of each module (there are more than 100 on the classic), then perhaps you could distribute the module coding and decoding responsibilities to others to take ownership of some modules, for a quicker result. I'm sure there are other python folks out here.
/Dasz
ps.: It looks like there are more cats on this forum again - hi cappy2112! |
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Kassen
Janitor
Joined: Jul 06, 2004
Posts: 7678
Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:34 am Post subject:
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| dasz wrote: | qfingers,
a thought occured to me. if some conversions require building blocks, then the patches which do not exceed 100% on a NM Classic, may exceed 100% on a G2.
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That's not the real issue, the real issue, I wager, is the zero page.
I think the G2 has a single zero page adress less then the NM too.
This is not a huge issue for practical patching since the G2 also has higher-level modules which can often be used to optimise zero page usage compared to the NM, howver that's often the sort of optimisation which benefits from clever patching. Emualting that sort of cleverness is not at all easy.
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qfingers
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Tucson, AZ
G2 patch files: 2
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:12 am Post subject:
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| Kassen wrote: | | dasz wrote: | qfingers,
a thought occured to me. if some conversions require building blocks, then the patches which do not exceed 100% on a NM Classic, may exceed 100% on a G2.
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That's not the real issue, the real issue, I wager, is the zero page.
I think the G2 has a single zero page adress less then the NM too.
This is not a huge issue for practical patching since the G2 also has higher-level modules which can often be used to optimise zero page usage compared to the NM, howver that's often the sort of optimisation which benefits from clever patching. Emualting that sort of cleverness is not at all easy. |
I'm not concerned with 100% usage currently. We are not even close to that issue. There are a ton of module convertions to be done. I'm going to create either a quick module converter or a stub for every NM1 module. Each block has a separate "class" with code to convert the parameters, and setup the input ports and output ports. Then the converter will take the NM1 cable list, use module index and parameter index to build a new cable list for the G2. So the converter "class" and code, is what determines which G2 module to connect to. That allows the convert object to define how the G2 sub-structure is mapped. All the optimizations can be done within it. One problem I've been seeing is that many Osc modules allow 2 pitch inputs with separate modulation values. This has to be built out of a 2 input mixer and routed to the variable pitch modulation input. If only one of the pitch modulation inputs is used, I can use the module as is without the extra mixer.
I have all the module converters broken out to separate python modules for each NM1 editor tab. I will eventually breakout each module converter to it's own single python source file. Once I have that done with all the stubs and converted modules, I will release the code into the "wild". What I want to see is people to send me through email (or this forum) python source for updated converters for stuff I have wrong, optimizations, or completed converters. I will be in charge of fixing and updating the main converter application as and converter module problems. I was thinking about sourceforging this or some other open source repository. I'm still looking into it.
Anyone who wants to work on the project has to send me email for the request. Please send me a message so I can get a count of how many people want to work on this. I not sure how I want to manage the project yet. It may be email patching of the source only with sourceforge just for the released software.
Right now, I use a source code management program called mercurial http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/. I'm in search of a hosting site that supports mercurial. If I find one, that will be what want I use. Otherwise I may have to resort to svn. Still looking.
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Afro88
Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 701
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Audio files: 12
G2 patch files: 79
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:17 pm Post subject:
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| qfingers wrote: | | I was thinking about sourceforging this or some other open source repository. I'm still looking into it. |
That sounds like a good idea, if only for the built in cvs functions that will keep a history of code changes for you. I know of a few people who swear by cvs, especially when there are random people sending in bits of code and updating modules for you. |
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cappy2112
Joined: Dec 24, 2004
Posts: 2490
Location: San Jose, California
Audio files: 2
G2 patch files: 1
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject:
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[quote="Afro88"] | qfingers wrote: |
I know of a few people who swear by cvs |
I know some people who swear at cvs (an I'm one of them)
Unfortunately, it's the vc of choice used by all the software & firmware engineers where i work. |
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qfingers
Joined: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Tucson, AZ
G2 patch files: 2
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject:
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| Afro88 wrote: | | qfingers wrote: | | I was thinking about sourceforging this or some other open source repository. I'm still looking into it. |
That sounds like a good idea, if only for the built in cvs functions that will keep a history of code changes for you. I know of a few people who swear by cvs, especially when there are random people sending in bits of code and updating modules for you. |
I've used cvs and prefer mercurial. I am already managing my sources. It's just a matter of allowing others to as well. I don't care for central repositories becuase there is too many chances to mess up the repository. Mercurial is distributed. This way only the local repository can get corrupted. I may just prefer email and patches. This way I don't have to be tied to a host. I might also consider svn but not cvs. Right now, I want to finish, post the result, and have people send me patches. I may use my own server to host stuff. I am on a high-speed internet connection but it only allows https to get through and ssh.
Let's see how many people want to code. Testers and module suggestions and fixes can come from this forum or another one. The coder are the only ones who need respository access and maybe not even that. If I only have 2 or 3 coders, I'm not going to bother. Then I'll probably use sourceforge or savannah to post the releases and that's it.
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noisevoid
Joined: May 13, 2015
Posts: 8
Location: san jose
G2 patch files: 1
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:21 pm Post subject:
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| QFINGERS! WHERE HAVE YOU GONE?! WHAT HAS HAPPENED!? |
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