Toner Transfer PCB etching WITHOUT Press N Peel Blue

Chrometuna

I'm not sure what catagory, or where to post this, so I'm putting it here. (A mod or admin can move it if they see fit....sorry)

This might not be big news for most folks here, but it was for me, as I couldnt find a reasonably cheap way to get Press N Peel Blue paper here.

http://www.fullnet.com/~tomg/gooteepc.htm#1

That page has a pretty good and informative lecture on making PCBs with toner transfer paper, and talks about what brands are best.

Looks a whole lot cheaper, and quicker to get, then ordering 5 sheets of PnP Blue for $20 bucks from England.

I am going to give this a try tomarrow. I'll post the results if anyone is interested....but maybe this has been discussed extensivly elsewhere on this forum, and I just didnt find it in my searches?

Cheers
bob c

Uncle Krunkus · Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:03 am Post subject:

That link doesn't go anywhere for me. (cannot find server error)

blue hell · Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2006 7:58 am Post subject:

The link did work here after a few tries, so maybe it's just slow ?

crashlander42 · Joined: Oct 21, 2006 Posts: 292 Location: Orlando, FL (US)

I've used toner transfer for everything i've built. It's really easy once you get the hang of it. My only tips would be to make sure you use the crappiest photo paper. The thick stuff that has the real plastic-ish side, make sure everything is printed DARK, and make sure the copper is CLEAN.

My boards come out real nice. Real sharp edges. Never had a problem with shorts.

Let me know if you have any questions 'cause i've done a lot of this.

Chrometuna · Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:56 am Post subject: Re: toner transfer

Chrometuna · Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: Re: toner transfer

henq · Joined: Nov 29, 2006 Posts: 23 Location: holland

i only did 1 pcb that way and had some "broken" traces too.
i just soldered some sollid wire over them (like jumpers)

got no cam right now so i cant show a pic of that...

Fenris · Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:23 am Post subject:

I'll bump a dead thread Very Happy

Heres my PCB done with glossy photo paper as the transfer medium. I had to do a little bit of remedial work with an etch resist pen. I find drilling the holes fairly theraputic

.

I tried PnP blue for my first sojourn into DIY PCB's and although I found it great as far as easy removal goes and the tracks that went down were crisp and sharp. BUT, there had to be one Very Happy

, It had a tendency to pucker and shrink at the edges causing smearing of any traces under the effected areas.

So after that, and considering the cost, I went with the photo paper which is much much cheaper. Results where much better for me though different problems occurred at times, traces lifting, but mainly due to needing practice with the ol' iron. I am planning on getting a laminator to use now though.

Here's my WSG PCB. It's based on the Ray Wilson PCB pattern with minor changes to suit a single sided PCB.

regards

Fenris

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skylab76 · Joined: Dec 30, 2007 Posts: 38 Location: Austin

Actually I've been thinking about creating my own PCBs . Thanks Fenris for reviving the thread. I just hope my ratshack has Ferric Chloride because I heard that some of the stores are not carrying it. Do you use that chem or do you use muriatic acid & hydrogen peroxide ?

Side note: In doing research today I got funny results from Google because I accidently typed , "How to make PCP" I'm probably on some FBI watch list now because of this and my googling of chemicals.

Fenris · Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:04 am Post subject:

Hi Skylab

Yes, I use ferric-chloride. But only because I was given it Very Happy

. My other weapon of choice, down to whats available at the time, is persulphate(?) I used it once years ago. It's a clear solution that works just as well as the ferric.

Rapid online do sell ferric in powder form as well as liquid. I recommend the powder form for ease of storage. and you can mix what you need and it does go a long way.

My only tip is to sit the etching tray in another tray that is filled with hot water. This warms the ferric up and speeds the process. Do take care to ensure good ventilation.

The only other tip is to suspend you PCB face down in the etchant as this also helps speed the process along. Read all safety precaution data for the materials involved in the process.

regards

Fenris

skylab76 · Joined: Dec 30, 2007 Posts: 38 Location: Austin

Thanks for the tips Fenris (especially the bit about the warm water). And they do have it at Radioshack. I'll do a dry run with an APC circuit, then move on to some of Rays stuff.

Regards,

Fenris · Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject:

Hi Skylab

Glad I could help. I 'officially' made my first PCB around a year ago. luckily it took only 2 attempts with the photo paper method Patience and practice will pay dividends. Good luck and above all have fun,

regards

Fenris

diablojoy · Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:05 am Post subject:

PNP Blue is far cheaper if you buy 100 sheets works out at roughly
USD $1.00 per sheet
also standard general purpose thinners from a hardware store removes the toner after etching very quickly and is very cheap
To clean the board before transfer lightly sand with wet and dry paper
the copper must be flat and smooth with no burrs to get the best results don't over do it though 1000 grit for the copper face is good
600 grit works well to remove any burrs on the edges of the copper [use it wet ] rinse in cold water and then spray over with methalated spirit till it stops all beading and runs off the face in a sheet
pat dry with paper towel .do not touch the copper after this step
do not over heat with the iron it causes blurring if you place a piece of white copy paper over the top and then iron the board when you can see the cct imprint in the paper clearly its a about right .place under cold running water to cool the board cut 3 sides of the transfer with an exacto knife and then slowly slide another sheet of copy paper between the board and the transfer with the transfer facing up you can instantly see any area's that are not quite right and touch up by reheating with a flat faced tip on a soldering iron if only small or reapplying the clothes iron if needed without disturbing the location of the transfer . when using ferric chloride i put the board in face up quite often the middle of the pads where you will be drilling sort of glow brighter than the rest this is caused by surface tension over the small area involved use a pin to prick the centre lightly so they go dark [needs to be done under a very bright light and viewed from various angles to be seen] the hole centre's will then etch correctly. after etching just wipe the board with any sort of enamel paint thinners and then rinse off and you are ready to drill i use a dremell in a dremmel work stand [sort of like a mini drill press] to do this.
everything else i have tried is either too inaccurate or too expensive
cheers
diablo

Fenris · Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:36 am Post subject:

Good tips there Diablojoy. I use fine steel wool to prep my boards and a mild detergent. I think I should give the meths ago on my next one.

PnP Blue - How did you avoid the crinkling and shrinkage at the edges? That's the only other problem I had with it. Temperature?

regards

Fenris

diablojoy · Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:45 pm Post subject:

yeah probably temp is too high try using a lower setting on the iron
on the iron i use it seems to work best on the wool setting
unfortunately irons tend to vary quite a lot so you will have to do
some test runs to find what setting works best
i have the pnp blue face up when i tape and tape the board
on with just normal masking tape pushing it well into the sides
i tape all four sides
if your getting lines that dont look crisp or have a smudged appearance
to the edges it usually means its getting too hot or you are ironing the board for too long

Fenris · Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:22 am Post subject:

Perhaps I should dig out my R/C model aircraft covering iron. The dial has the temperature in degrees around the dial with 3 colour LED readiness indication, a smaller footprint and teflon coating to boot Very Happy

regards

Fenris

zoid · Joined: Jul 30, 2009 Posts: 2 Location: USA

I guess things have changed since the last time I tried toner transfer. The last time was 10 or so years ago. After many attempts I gave it up in disgust never to try it again. My problem was the toner would not transfer and stick to the PCB. If I got what looked like a decent transfer, the stuff came off in the etchant. I never once got a decent PCB. I checked some forums and the consensus at the time was that toner transfer sucked. Its too bad as I often need a 1 off pcb and have to hand wire my circuits. Its Really mind bending if the circuit is complex [aren't they all?]. Can someone suggest a link to a modern method that works?
Thanx Zoid

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typical hand built circuit. A 3 VCO hybrid oscillator system

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Fenris · Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 12:33 pm Post subject:

Heres one link. Google 'how to toner transfer' it will provide you with reams of links. I tried this for the first time early last year with an iron and it took only 2 attempts to get a viable PCB to etch. I have since converted a hot laminator by removing it's thermostat and replacing it with the thermostat from the iron I used to use. It works a treat. I have PCB's coming out of my ears, and yes, the corners hurt. Wink

http://www.instructables.com/id/Cheap-and-Easy-Toner-Transfer-for-PCB-Making/

regards

Fenris