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cappy2112

Joined: Dec 24, 2004 Posts: 2465 Location: San Jose, California
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Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject:
Some math behind "A Hard Day's Night (UPDATED) |
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http://blog.wired.com/music/files/n-oct04-harddayjib.pdf
Here is a followup I received in an email from Dr Dobbs Journal- regarding the article. I didn't look to see if it was posted on their site.
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"Finally, in response to "Hard Day's Math," which prompted this thread, reader Ken Graham was kind enough to share the following tidbit about what I hope is the true story of the opening chord to a "Hard Day's Night":
Actually, in a story attributed to an interview with Joe Walsh, the first time Joe met George Harrison he played the first few bars of "Hard Day's Night." George asked Joe how he learned to play that beginning so well. Joe said that it took a lot of practice and improvising a non-standard fingering for one of the guitar chords. To which George was reported to have said, "That's amazing, because we cheated. We restrung two of my 12 string guitars and Paul played the top 6 strings on one guitar and I played the bottom 6 strings on the other."
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Thanks Ken.
-- Jonathan Erickson
jerickson@ddj.com _________________ Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home. Last edited by cappy2112 on Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:33 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Antimon
Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 4145 Location: Sweden
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cappy2112

Joined: Dec 24, 2004 Posts: 2465 Location: San Jose, California
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:45 am Post subject:
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Antimon wrote: | Brilliant!
/Stefan |
Yeah- I thought it was quite clever _________________ Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home. |
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seraph
Editor


Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12379 Location: Firenze, Italy
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:47 am Post subject:
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I read it all  _________________ homepage - blog - forum - youtube
Quote: | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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Antimon
Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 4145 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:28 am Post subject:
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I doesn't mention if anyone bothered to simply ask Paul or George (Martin), what they played. Or, for that matter, John or George (Harrison) back when it was possible. A fun exercise anyway.
/Stefan _________________ Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music |
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Wout Blommers

Joined: Sep 07, 2003 Posts: 4528 Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:46 am Post subject:
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It still is one of the icons in music. Just hear the chord and you'll know. And now I'm playing those records again and again today...
Thanks
Wout |
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cappy2112

Joined: Dec 24, 2004 Posts: 2465 Location: San Jose, California
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Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject:
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Wout Blommers wrote: | It still is one of the icons in music. Just hear the chord and you'll know. And now I'm playing those records again and again today...
Thanks
Wout |
This reminds me- I still haven't read that book "Recording The Beatles" yet- it's very thick and heavy, but it should be filled with lots of interesting details. _________________ Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home. |
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Blue Hell
Site Admin

Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 23985 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject:
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Could someone post a one second sample of that chord? ... I never noticed anything special about that song's beginning  _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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cappy2112

Joined: Dec 24, 2004 Posts: 2465 Location: San Jose, California
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:23 am Post subject:
Re: Some math behind "A Hard Day's Night (UPDATED) |
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cappy2112 wrote: | http://blog.wired.com/music/files/n-oct04-harddayjib.pdf
Here is a followup I received in an email from Dr Dobbs Journal- regarding the article. I didn't look to see if it was posted on their site.
Quote: |
"Finally, in response to "Hard Day's Math," which prompted this thread, reader Ken Graham was kind enough to share the following tidbit about what I hope is the true story of the opening chord to a "Hard Day's Night":
Actually, in a story attributed to an interview with Joe Walsh, the first time Joe met George Harrison he played the first few bars of "Hard Day's Night." George asked Joe how he learned to play that beginning so well. Joe said that it took a lot of practice and improvising a non-standard fingering for one of the guitar chords. To which George was reported to have said, "That's amazing, because we cheated. We restrung two of my 12 string guitars and Paul played the top 6 strings on one guitar and I played the bottom 6 strings on the other."
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Thanks Ken.
-- Jonathan Erickson
jerickson@ddj.com |
If the Beatles used Rickenbacker 12-string electrics, these 12-string guitars have the their octave strings placed above the primary strings instead of below. This produces that characteristic sound that can also be heard in some songs by The Byrds, Tom Petty, because the octave string is strummed before the primary string.
I don't remember seeing any pictures of the Beatles holding 12-string guitars though. _________________ Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home. |
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cappy2112

Joined: Dec 24, 2004 Posts: 2465 Location: San Jose, California
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Wout Blommers

Joined: Sep 07, 2003 Posts: 4528 Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:53 am Post subject:
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Normally a 12 string has this set up, when hitting the strings downwards, which is along with gravity, not pitch
oct E - E - oct A - A - oct D - D - oct G - G - B - B - E - E.
Rickenbacker changed it in
E - oct E - A - oct A - D - oct D - G - oct G - B - B - E - E.
Many times the oct G is replaced by G, because of snapping to early and to keep the high E the highest sounding note, although it 'rings' less bright.
Roger McQuinn saw the Rickenbacker 12 string played by George Harrison in a TV registration and wondered where the six tuning pegs where hidden he didn't saw. (Or was it the other way around? - Can't find the books now )
Wout
BTW Jan, that chord stands for the sound of the sixties, just like 'Hokus Pokus, iedereen kan to-veren' stands for the Belgium/Dutch music of 2000  |
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Wout Blommers

Joined: Sep 07, 2003 Posts: 4528 Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:57 am Post subject:
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cappy2112 wrote: | My ears don't hear it either. | You're kidding...
Wout |
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seraph
Editor


Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12379 Location: Firenze, Italy
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:57 am Post subject:
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Wout Blommers wrote: | ...wondered where the six tuning pegs where hidden he didn't saw... |
 _________________ homepage - blog - forum - youtube
Quote: | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
Last edited by seraph on Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Wout Blommers

Joined: Sep 07, 2003 Posts: 4528 Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:06 am Post subject:
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Yep, I know, but Roger (or Jim) didn't knew then
Is this guitar yours?
Anyway, The Beatles are White Epiphone - Rickenbacker 12 string - Hofner Violin Bass and Ludwig drums... playing on Vox amplifiers. How often is a picture burned into your brains? Fender Stratocaster and Jimi Hendrix? Gibson SG and Frank Zappa? Brian Jones and the Vox guitar?
Did I ever told the joke about Keith Moon in Heaven...?
Wout |
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seraph
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Joined: Jun 21, 2003 Posts: 12379 Location: Firenze, Italy
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:05 am Post subject:
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Wout Blommers wrote: |
Is this guitar yours?
Did I ever told the joke about Keith Moon in Heaven...?
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no to both questions  _________________ homepage - blog - forum - youtube
Quote: | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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cappy2112

Joined: Dec 24, 2004 Posts: 2465 Location: San Jose, California
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:23 am Post subject:
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Wout Blommers wrote: | cappy2112 wrote: | My ears don't hear it either. | You're kidding...
Wout |
I guess it's the "over 40 freq. rolloff" thing  _________________ Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home. |
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cappy2112

Joined: Dec 24, 2004 Posts: 2465 Location: San Jose, California
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:29 am Post subject:
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Wout Blommers wrote: |
and wondered where the six tuning pegs where hidden he didn't saw. (Or was it the other way around? - Can't find the books now )
BTW Jan, that chord stands for the sound of the sixties, just like 'Hokus Pokus, iedereen kan to-veren' stands for the Belgium/Dutch music of 2000  |
BC Rich have an innovative way of dealing with "the other 4 tuning pegs" on their 10-string Rich Bich guitar. These a re located at the other end of the guitar- near the bridge. http://www.bcrich.com/bichR.html _________________ Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home. |
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Wout Blommers

Joined: Sep 07, 2003 Posts: 4528 Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:41 am Post subject:
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Yeah...
It's like The Rolling Stones who want to have a heavy guitar sound, which made them, together with their lead vocalist, famous, BTW. Removing the bass E string allowed much heavier equalizing...
Wout |
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cappy2112

Joined: Dec 24, 2004 Posts: 2465 Location: San Jose, California
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 9:34 am Post subject:
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Wout Blommers wrote: | Normally a 12 string has this set up, when hitting the strings downwards, which is along with gravity, not pitch
oct E - E - oct A - A - oct D - D - oct G - G - B - B - E - E.
Rickenbacker changed it in
E - oct E - A - oct A - D - oct D - G - oct G - B - B - E - E.
Wout
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Oops- I got that one backwards  _________________ Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home. |
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Antimon
Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 4145 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:07 am Post subject:
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seraph wrote: | Wout Blommers wrote: | ...wondered where the six tuning pegs where hidden he didn't saw... |
(picture)
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Mmm, love that wood layout. It looks the same on my precious 330. Clever, those extra tuners.
/Stefan _________________ Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music |
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Blue Hell
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 23985 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:23 am Post subject:
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cappy2112 wrote: | My ears don't hear it either. |
Thanks for posting Tony, now that I hear it I do remember ... but the specialty must have a cultural reason  _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Blue Hell
Site Admin

Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 23985 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 273
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:29 am Post subject:
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Wout Blommers wrote: | 'Hokus Pokus, iedereen kan to-veren' stands for the Belgium/Dutch music of 2000  |
Hocus pocus focus I know that one but that was surely long before 2000 ... more like 1970 but erm .. there is no need here I think to post a one second sample  _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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cappy2112

Joined: Dec 24, 2004 Posts: 2465 Location: San Jose, California
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 11:36 am Post subject:
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Blue Hell wrote: | Wout Blommers wrote: | 'Hokus Pokus, iedereen kan to-veren' stands for the Belgium/Dutch music of 2000  |
Hocus pocus focus I know that one but that was surely long before 2000 ... more like 1970 but erm .. there is no need here I think to post a one second sample  |
Is that group Dutch??
I thought the name of the song was "Hocus Pocus", and the group was Focus _________________ Free Tibet. Release the Panchen Lama from prison. Let the Dalai Lama return to his home. |
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BobTheDog

Joined: Feb 28, 2005 Posts: 4039 Location: England
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Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject:
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I like the idea they managed to get a grant for the paper, nice one. |
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bugfight

Joined: Aug 02, 2007 Posts: 188 Location: Arlington, TX USA
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