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An idea for a new kind of DIY VCO
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Yeah, FPGAs sound like they'd be pretty cool. But they're a bit to rational for me!!
"Having fun is half of the insanity!!"
or was that,
"Going insane is half the fun!!"?

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

How about this one?
Can you connect the output of a binary counter or 4017 to two, three or four AND gate inputs. (I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, I'm just checking)
Yes, of course you can! What was I thinking?
How about eight?

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blue hell
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You should check the data sheets for minimal output and maxiimal input current, but with CMOS the number of inputs that you can connect to an output should be virtual limitless.

For old style TTL outputs would have a fan-out specified and likewise inputs would have a fan-in, adding up the fan-in's should not exceed the fan-out then. But I can't remember ever having to worry about this for CMOS.

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Well I fired up the first prototype of the Monscitor this arvo. Have a listen to the mp3. This is just the output of it running by itself at one fundamental frequency.
If you have a look at the waveshape, you'll see (and hear) that the transition from one wave to the next is quite sharp. I know that because I used dual up counters there will be a jolt when the byte goes back to 0000, but I think it's worse than it should be. Hopefully this is because I've transposed the bit lines somehow. I'm going to investigate that later tonight. I think it's a promising start though.
I'm thinking of using it as a sub oscillator in a synth, as it basically takes a square wave in and spits out a constantly morphing squarewave conglomeration which is always 3 octaves below (also sometimes containing 1&2 octaves below)
Bub is being induced in the morning. So I better get some sleep.


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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sounds pretty interesting! It would be cool to drive it through a modulated filter or LPG to see how that sounded.

Good luck on the inducement - I hope this isn't any indication of the kid's future stubborness factor Very Happy

Cheerio,
Scott
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blue hell
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Ah you got it running, good !

Sounds good as well I think. Maybe don't fix anything now & good luck Smile

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

It turns out that I had the bit lines connected completely backwards! I fixed it, and it already sounds heaps better!

Hanna Ruby Sharp was born at 7:45 AEST this morning. 3.8kg Mum and bub doing well. Father very proud of all involved.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

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Congratulations! Happy Birthday Hanna Ruby

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Scott Stites
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

What Mosc said Very Happy

Congrats, Uncle K.
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dnny



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Congratulations to you and your family. long waiting is finally over.

all the best.

daniel

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey happy news, my congratulations !
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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thanks everyone.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's the latest pic and wave of the super-sub. It's still not as I want it to be, and it does use an awful lot of chips for what it does, but it already has good WSB potential.
Hey Jan, I've noticed the spikey wave form is back (have a look at the mp3 in Soundforge etc.) and I was wondering if, now that I have, 556 clocks feeding 4520 counters which are ANDed with the 4017 outputs via 4081s and sent to the 4066 inputs, should I have pull down resistors anywhere else?
Fixing the bit lines has decreased the amount of sudden steps in the wave, but it does mean that the steps which do occur are as bad as they can be (ie 1111 -> 0000) I've worked out a way that you could drop back to 3bit and use the fourth as an auto reverse bit (XORs) but adding anymore chips would just be getting to silly! Wouldn't it?
Could I run the 4017 straight off a square wave out of the SoundLab? It's musicality would immediately go up a few notches if could just patch it in as a sub oscillator. That's why I decided to call it a Super-Sub.
One of it's features/annoyances is the sudden shifts in amplitude. This could maybe be tamed with a little compressor like Scott has been experimenting with lately. Yet the shifts in harmonic content are the whole point, so maybe that's just part of the uncontrolled modulation effect.
The next thing will be to make each sample's mod clock internal/stopped/external. And I've thought of a rotary switch for each sample so you can dial up different mod clocks to each sample. External mod clock /2,3,4......10 is another possibility.
Anybody who has any ideas about how to improve this thing feel free to throw them around!
Is there anyone willing to help me do a schem of it using Ray's schem publisher? I'm still finding it hard to use.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:

Hey Jan, I've noticed the spikey wave form is back (have a look at the mp3 in Soundforge etc.) and I was wondering if, now that I have, 556 clocks feeding 4520 counters which are ANDed with the 4017 outputs via 4081s and sent to the 4066 inputs, should I have pull down resistors anywhere else?


You lost me Very Happy

I did read your request for help on drawing up the schematics, so I wont expect too much, but could you maybe give some scetch as what it is like now ?

The sound example is almost like there is mains hum in it ? Also there is not only the peaks, but I don't get the arcs in the waves either.

Nice pic you posted elswhere btw, the bathing one I mean.

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

On the original the 4017 was feeding the 4066 directly, yet you suggested pull down resistors, and they helped stabilise it heaps. Now there are a number of gates in between those stages, and I wondered whether I need pull downs between any of them.
When the output of any of the gates isn't high it is definately low (ie: there aren't any "floaters") but that was the case with the 4017->4066 and the resistors helped pulled them down quicker.
Maybe once I get a rough schem to you, you'll start to see where it could be better. I'll have a go at that next.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
I'll have a go at that next.


No need to hurry.

I've got some customers at work wanting to have it done yesterday with specifications impossible to implement and third parties being involved refusing to do a thing.

But I still lurk here :-)

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Oh it might take a while! Very Happy
Ray's schem publisher is driving me crazy! I must be missing something for it to be so hard to use.

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dnny



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Is there anyone willing to help me do a schem of it using Ray's schem publisher? I'm still finding it hard to use.


if Jan is helping you to improve the circuit i can help by drawing the schem. or Jan are you doing it already?



daniel

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dnny



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Oh it might take a while! Very Happy
Ray's schem publisher is driving me crazy! I must be missing something for it to be so hard to use.


have you read the Schematic Publisher HTML Help?
there are some good tips there.

HTH

d

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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Hey Dnny,
Can you make the page any bigger? It seems I get a few components on there, and it's full. How did Ray ever fit all the components for his Soundlab schems?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Here's the .sch file of the main board so far.
It seems very simple, but most of it happens on the mod boards. (which I'm starting on now)


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Uncle Krunkus
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sorry, couldn't stand trying to do this one in SP, so I drew it in photoshop! This is 1/8th of the mod section. I've got four of these on each mod board. Very simple.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:32 am    Post subject:   Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i better throw in a hearty belated congratulations! a child is the ULTIMATE DIY project!

(plus good work on the oscillator!)
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i didna like that schematic publisher software much. i use "circuit maker 2000" for drawing them. much easier. it is also a simulation, and has a pcb design thing too. if anyone wants it, lemme know, 'PM' me, also, i have "electronics workbench". i will post a screen shot of it here also so youall can see.

i am moving right now, trying to finish some things up, but, in the future, if anyone needs a hand with drawing a schematic or designing a PCB, let me know! i'm glad to help- if it's elaborate, [especially a PCB] perhaps we could work out a trade for something. cool then.

josh
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dnny



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Uncle Krunkus wrote:
Hey Dnny,
Can you make the page any bigger? It seems I get a few components on there, and it's full. How did Ray ever fit all the components for his Soundlab schems?


you can adjust the page size :

Use "Print Setup..." to select paper sizes other than 8.5" x 11." The virtual drawing page will assume the dimensions and orientation of the selected paper.

HTH

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