Mixing down to 1/4 inch tape.

KarmanHardon · Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:58 am Post subject:

Excellent!!

Err... you guys can tell me what tape I should keep an eye opened for?

That Maxell UD 35-90 seems like, to me, ok stuff... is there much better tape out there?
Right now I'm trying to find info on tape speeds and why the bass response is better at 7.5 than at 15 ips... I don't really get it yet.

elektro80 · Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:24 am Post subject:

It all depends a bit on which tape or class of tape the deck has been set up for. This is simple and also pretty complex. However, some decks do have simple tools for making quick and reasonably sensible calibrations.. of sorts.

If you want a truly high end r2r deck then look for a mint condition and well serviced Tandberg TDA20 series deck. There were many varations on the basic 20 series design and the 2 track hi-speed was excellent for mastering.

The Studer, Revox and Tandberg units all sound different from the Otari and Tascam models. The Tandberg 10 and 20 series were designed to perform very well at high speeds and these do have some serious bass. The 20 series gradually moved towards a very analytical and "wide" sound, but still kept the warm feel of the 10 series. Only thing to say here is that the 20 series are generally really overpriced these days. It is pretty hard to get "new" parts.

RE calibration etc.. if you are really a nut then you will have each deck set up for one speed only. You pick the speed and have everything tuned and adjusted to that speed.

EdisonRex · Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:41 am Post subject:

KarmanHardon · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:16 am Post subject:

Yo!

I missed the Otari by one day. What a deception....

Now a guy two blocks away has this Studer A810

Playback is fine he says, but the recording level is very low and "distorted". He is asking 400$ (can) for it ...and I probably could get it out of his hands for 350. He also says it could be an adjustment that has to be done.

If it's the heads that are finished, I think I shouldn't touch it. Otherwise... maybe.

What...uh... well, do you think?

mosc · Posted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject:

That Studer is one of the best machines ever made. Still, if it doesn't work and you don't know how to adjust it, it is not too valuable to you.

I'm sure there are people in Montreal that can fix these things. Call one of them and see if you can get some advice. Maybe you can arrange to borrow the machine for a couple of days and take it over to someone who can tell you what's going on. These people can probably give you leads on good functioning used machines.

Most of the time, you can see the condition of the heads just by looking at them. Compare the record head to the playback head. You know the playback head is in good shape so use it as a reference for wear.

My guess is there is something wrong in the electronics. Maybe as little as a bad connector that just needs reseating, but who knows.

KarmanHardon · Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 11:02 am Post subject:

Thanks Howard.

Hm... I will go check it out at least.

The thing is, that machine has spent most of it's life at Radio-Canada. That means

a)It has been used A LOT
b)they might have changed the heads along the way a coupla times since they have (or had) HUGE annual budgets.

If the heads are ok, maybe I should get it anyway and have it fixed.

I'll bring a reel of tape and record... I'll see from there.

I shouldn't get too excited (even if this one is la crème) as I'm certain I will eventually find a great, perfectly functional recorder for peanuts one day or another.

-edit-
Oh my!!!

A working one of these still goes for quite a bundle! I just checked on ebay...

And yes... I should go straight to the people who serviced these things.

mosc · Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:01 pm Post subject:

I see it has a tape splicing block mounted on the right. Check if it is all cut up by errant razor blades. If not, than that's a good sign as it may not have been used much for editing. That would put a lot a wear and tear on it, as opposed to playing tapes or making air checks.

I'm sure Radio Canada took proper care of it, but still...

elektro80 · Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:41 pm Post subject:

Howard is quite right, that Studer A810 is the real thing. Really.. that thing is what R2R audio is really about.

elektro80 · Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:42 pm Post subject:

KarmanHardon · Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:47 pm Post subject:

EdisonRex · Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:44 am Post subject:

Also take a good look at the heads. You can see a worn head quite clearly.

I should think that "distorted" recording/playback can be adjusted around, or repaired, but you'll need professional help. I can only echo Howard and Stein's comments, that's the real deal and worth a serious look at.

KarmanHardon · Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:10 am Post subject:

Leaving in an hour...

From what I read here and there, that thing is a cost is no object device and it seems that if the heads are fine, I should take it and eventually invest in it. As long as the heads still have enough life for my own use....

But then again, it could cost me an arm and a leg to get that formula-one a simple o-ring...

Back in a bit.

KarmanHardon · Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:37 pm Post subject:

Ok.

The heads looked pretty much like this (they didn't appear overly worn, not obviously so to me anyway):
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

That pic is from there: http://www.filmco.net/Audio/STUDER_A810.htm
but with a lot of tape residue. I mean a lot, much more than could be expected considering the class of this machine The seller didn't really use it himself and bought it off RadioCan being told it was in usable condition but he never took the time to either bring it back or have it serviced. I wonder what it was used for at RadioCan... really. Head wear appeared equal on both heads. But then again, they are very dirty and it made it kind of hard to see.

I used a tiny piece of tissue to rub a tiny bit off to verify it was really dirt and not wear.

It was obviously used quite a lot. The editing block's area wasn't too bruised but, as the guy told me, some use a dedicated block for this... anyway.

We did a recording test with some tape I brought. When fed a signal that's around 0db, it plays back nearly 10 dbs lower and much highs are missing.
I didn't notice any distortion. At one point I cranked the gain and got a recording closer to 0db with no distortion either. I don't know which distortion he was talking about in the ad. The bass response appeared ok.

What else.... The was no pitch adjustment knob on this one and only two speeds: 7 1/2 and 15 ips. No 30ips, wich I found odd (not that I would have used that speed...).

It's a nice machine worth fixing and all I guess... and I really want a nice deck, among very few things I definitely need to mix my album like I intend to. I also have an eye on a nice compressor that I would use 50 times per day... I need to spend my money wisely... and think for a while.

EdisonRex · Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 2:53 pm Post subject:

residue you can clean off! also the problems they report can be explained by having the heads filthy.

At least in extreme cases, dirty heads can make a recorder dysfunctional.

elektro80 · Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:07 pm Post subject:

Carefully clean and degauss the heads. Also check recording levels. I don´t remember this particular model in detail, but there might be a "+4dbu vs. some kind of prosumer level at say Tascam´s -10dB" switch thingie here. Actually, there might be several level switches.. both for inputs and outputs.

EdisonRex · Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:17 pm Post subject:

I think the A810 is safely in +4 territory. The problem is I expect this unit has neglect. If that's a picture of the heads, it is probably misaligned and misconfigured. This, I expect we can do something about. Or at least someine in Montreal can do something about.

I don't want to sound pessimistic. If you heard good sound, buy it, the problems can be sorted out.

elektro80 · Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:29 pm Post subject:

The Studer that is like all over the place in large numbers is the A80. AFAICR, getting parts and shit for this model ( and versions of the basic A80 ) was quite easy a couple of years back.

The A810 is better sounding, but there were many "edits" on the basic design and for some reason this model got a bad rep but not because it sounded awful. This is in essence a modern and improved version of the A80 that possibly might have reliability problems.. but frankly it could also just mean that it wasn´t intended to take as much abuse as the A80 was.

All is relative, if you get the A810 looked over and repaired I´m sure you won´t have much problems with it.

elektro80 · Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:50 pm Post subject:

elektro80 · Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject:

I reckon new heads will be like 150 to 200 USD each + work. This is not something you would want to mess with yourself. Anyways, first you should research how to clean and degausss the heads... and be sure to find out what the inputs really are... if balanced at pro levels you should of course not use a prosumer level unbalanced feed.

elektro80 · Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:18 pm Post subject:

I seem to recall that several of the A8xx Studers I have had the chance to mess with had pretty hot balanced outputs. Driving a 2-LA-2 with 600ohm input impedance was not much of a problem! Cool

KarmanHardon · Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:19 am Post subject:

Yeah... it did have xlr connectors.

I will borrow and clean it... still looking for a spot with experienced techs for it.

I will also ask him if 300$ will let me have it. If so, I'll just grab it and take the risk.Possibly too good of an opportunity to just miss it.

Damn these heads are dirty. It's unbelieveable. @EdisonRex: Yes, it is an extreme case... someone wiped his ass with the heads it seems... or maybe it was in storage for a bit and got sticky-greasy-dirty. So... maybe it's just that.

Now I see a Revox a700 for sale in Ontario... heads look nice. Auction ends tomorrow. Good price.

.... yeah...it looks damn clean.

That Revox uses the whole width of the tape for the two channels, right?

EdisonRex · Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:48 am Post subject:

KarmanHardon · Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:14 am Post subject:

Gahh.... I wish the guy was available today for me to go grab it for a few days.
heh... it turns out I once saw that dude at one of my parties years ago... btw, he has this great old console.I don't remember the company... a company that was bought by Midas or something he got it from Radio Canada too. Gee... I should sneak in there

elektro80 · Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:38 am Post subject:

The A700 is a consumer deck.. a good one.. but it is still intended for home use. That´s why it uses phono connectors. That means unbalanced as well.
I think I´ve seen an A700 with balanced outs too, but I guess that was a custom job.