Jack of all Trades or ONE TRICK PONY???

Kassen · Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:49 pm Post subject:

Yeah, BT is interesting in that regard but his emphasis on programing makes finantial sense as well, there has always been a link between techno-fetishism and electronic music, from early "synth music" to those schreenshots of the MAX patches used by Autechre in Sound on Sound.

Anyway, I think that's cool. It makes for a good image for him and gets Csound some publicity, definately cooler then the average producer who insists SSL desks are essential for a good sound.

Is there anywhere where I could see some code by BT?

Doni · Joined: Jul 11, 2007 Posts: 64 Location: Canada

yea, everybody needs to specialize to some degree.... even though I do play in a rock band, I dont think I could ever be part of an orchestra, or write anything symphony-worthy.... its about progress, even beyond talent progress is more important......... taker for example a band like 'The Clash' who's hearts were so in it that it didn't matter if they weren't the best most technical musicians.

I also emphasized the balance, like you. We all gotta eat, pay the rent, all that, so making money is no sin. But to have that clouding ones whole ambition is pretty lamentable; these are the people i'm talking about

I'm a closet BT fan too... to be honest he was one of the first electronic artists i picked up on when i was a bit younger. I think he's from Vancouver (where i live), or at least his label is.

Stanley Pain · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:10 am Post subject:

bachus · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:45 am Post subject:

bachus · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 4:52 am Post subject:

dewdrop_world · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:19 am Post subject:

Kassen · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:18 am Post subject:

Stanley Pain · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 10:54 am Post subject:

Doni · Joined: Jul 11, 2007 Posts: 64 Location: Canada

dewdrop_world · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:27 pm Post subject:

Kassen · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject:

Yeah, especially since Csound doesn't seem particularly conductive to having work taken off your hands. To me coding only realy makes sense if it speeds things up or enables you to to do things that are otherwise impossble.

I read up a little on BT, supposedly that Csound piece is "hundreds of pages" of code... That sounds more like therapy then like a particularly sensible aproach.

bachus · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject:

v-un-v · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 3:26 pm Post subject:

Stanley Pain · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject:

my point wasn't that learning a language equates to getting a job.

i believe the ability to programme shows a dedication to your art, and to be honest, some artists are less than 100% dedicated...

i believe it shows a certain work ethic.

Kassen · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:43 pm Post subject:

Doni · Joined: Jul 11, 2007 Posts: 64 Location: Canada

Acoustic Interloper · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 6:18 pm Post subject:

bachus · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:04 pm Post subject:

kkissinger · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:20 pm Post subject:

Jack of all Trades or ONE TRICK PONY? Genius or dummy? Generalist or specialist? Interesting or boring? Original or copycat?

Actually, I am not able to answer these questions for myself and I don't dare answer them for someone else.

I am aware that my music will land on the experience of each listener and some will be moved and others will yawn.

To label someone else's music as "unoriginal" presupposes that there is something WRONG with being unoriginal and that not only is the person WRONG for being unoriginal, but I would be equally WRONG if I write an unoriginal passage. In my quest to avoid being that which I consider "bad" I can quickly become paralyzed with fear!

I wish to thank everyone involved with this thread. All the comments have provided good reading and insight. Currently, I am in the throes of composing some new music -- the work is going slowly and in reading this thread it revealed to me that I snagged myself in the "trap" of wanting to create music that "really pushes the envelope!". To read your posts, and share a few comments is thought-provoking and forces issues to the surface.

So, I think I'll just set out to compose stuff, avoid worrying about it's originality, and have faith that the results will be artistically satisfying.

Kassen · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:27 pm Post subject:

dewdrop_world · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 7:37 pm Post subject:

Depends on what you're trying to do. The right mix of improvisation/experimentation ("play") vs. compositional activity ("work") is, I suspect, different for everyone. Brahms' music doesn't have the raw, explosive and unfiltered surges of, say, Coltrane, but his music has other strengths that are no less valuable. Nobody could improvise a Brahms clarinet sonata and get all the formal proportions (let alone contrapuntal detail) right on the first go.

Is programming that much different from the classical art of composition? I suppose it might be, when its result lacks the emotional punch Kassen (rightly) misses in a lot of e-music. But in the sense of a beta activity that (in music) shapes flashes of inspiration into larger, coherent wholes, I see a relationship.

For me, the point of programming is to create not a fixed piece, but free me from considering every musical detail during performance so I can concentrate on directing the overall form. I don't want loops but in a live context you just can't control everything. The "play" is in making note choices and screwing around with timbres; the work is in organizing semi-automated processes to produce non-repeating details while leaving me to control higher-level parameters.

I get a special thrill when an algorithm drops in a chord at just the right time, to an extent by chance. Happy accident! I've had a surprising number of them. The cadence at the end of this track is one -- I didn't tell it to fill in the 3rd of the chord at 3m 40s -- it just happened on its own. I was delighted.

James

Doni · Joined: Jul 11, 2007 Posts: 64 Location: Canada

Antimon · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:02 am Post subject:

Stanley Pain · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:12 am Post subject:

hehe. you guys remind me of the wizards from unseen university in the Terry Pratchett novels (for those who haven't read these, the Wizards in this fantasy parody are a metaphor for university professors...)

all young wizards want to conjure a naked beautiful nymphette. however, the process is quite tricky. by the time most wizards achieve this, they are old and have long white beards. by this stage, they've completely forgotten why they wanted to conjure a beautiful nymphette and so in true old man hoarding fashion they keep her locked up in safe keeping in a tall tower in case they need her later.

this is invariably misunderstood by the young local nights who then try to rescue the nymphette in as quick and brutal fashion as possible.

Pratchett, to my mind, sums up the creative/technical dilemma perfectly.

if you are serious about creativity and your audience, at some point you have to say "enough is enough" with the technology, forget the cerebral and give it some visceral Wink

Kassen · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 2:52 am Post subject:

It's realy not that hard or time consuming, Stanley. Look at this;