Structured Improvisation

Michael Chocholak · Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 8:32 pm Post subject: Structured Improvisation

I'm starting this up at the suggestion of egw in the m.e.s.s. intro thread.

I've always been into improv & jamming regardless of what kind of music I'm doing. I've tried different experiments in trying to retain the vitality of improv in compositions. The best example of this in my work so far is Quadrigemina which is a four part piece I wrote for the Hein Pijnenburg of the Schreck Ensemble. I provided a DAT recording of electronics (which is the most static aspect of the piece) as accompaniment to Hein on the bass clarinet. I also provided Hein with an image, a series of descriptive adjectives, a line of poetry, and sets of playing instructions for each section of the piece. I've got a few versions of the piece. They are all recognizable as the same composition but also very different from each other.

You can hear a version at my site at ElectronicScene, although right now you've got to be a member to hifi stream or download (but membership is free). Or you can check it out at the Schreck site (bottom of the page).

I've only recently started working with pc's & sequencers, but quickly discovered that the potentials for this kind of chameleon composition are obviously huge.

play · Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 10:38 pm Post subject:

gestural controllers are neat for this kind of thing and also cheap. there are a couple places selling midi boxes that allow you use a range of analog controls like pots, faders, force sensitive resitors, even thermistors. soooo many possibilities for self-modulating installations as well as intersting live performances.

i'm waiting for the smashistor

Michael Chocholak · Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 4:42 pm Post subject:

mosc · Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 6:53 pm Post subject:

Doepfer has a product you might be interested in: http://www.doepfer.de/home_e.htm

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aquanaut · Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2004 8:59 pm Post subject:

what i like the most is improv without recording what your doing. That way when something nice happen you have to let it go. I like those moment when i feel i had put my feet down in the present tense

play · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 12:05 am Post subject:

egw · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:41 am Post subject:

egw · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 3:47 am Post subject:

Michael Chocholak · Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2004 10:29 pm Post subject:

Makes me wish I had the time to dig out the soldering iron again. David Myers developed a similar, although more extreme, instrument based on the theremin called the Squealer - aptly named too. It's the thingie perched on top of his compact feedback machine Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

bachus · Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:17 am Post subject:

I don't do live and have used real time in a work only once or twice in my life. Not an aesthetic choice just a fact of my limitations. But I'm about to do a cadenza on controllers for a concerto for synths that I am writing/realizing. Here's a pic of some of my controllers. There are more and better sliders on my FW-1888 which I will probably use instead of those on the KB.

I like the Saitek Cyborg joy stick best --and not just because it looks so Cool

. Unfortunately good midi drivers for this are hard to come by. At present I am using MIDI Driver from codevis.com which is good and it's FREE banana

But it does not come close to fully realizing the wonderful potential of the stick. Any suggestions?

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Michael Chocholak · Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 6:47 am Post subject:

Ahhh. Well, Jeff Harrington's new toy, the Essential Reality P5 USB Virtual Controller Gaming Glove looks like the closest thing so far to what I've imagined.
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Hopefully he'll throw some comments in here about how it's working out & perhaps eventually a track to listen to. Very Happy

bachus · Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 11:36 am Post subject:

Oh! That's very cool indeed! Cool

My burning questions is: What driver(s)/program(s) does one use to give it a midi data oriented graphical user interface and to bind it all to one's midi rig?

Michael Chocholak · Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:59 pm Post subject:

Not to steal Jeff's thunder on this (yo Jeff... ), but he mentioned that there are a few and specifically cited Audiomulch.

Looks like fun, although I'm sure there's got to be a bit of a physical/intuitive learning curve. Even at $100 it's beyond me right now.

Instead I've started toying with compositional tools based on chaos theory which I'm finding to be both very rewarding when it all comes together (usually through a chain of interesting surprises) and extremely frustrating when it doesn't (nudge one parameter too many and it all goes up in smoke).

bachus · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:53 am Post subject:

egw · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 4:57 am Post subject:

I like the idea of a joystick as midi controller.
Does anyone make a box that would allow this to be done as a stand-alone?
i.e. not connected to a pc.

elektro80 · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:05 am Post subject:

...........joysticks were in use in the old days when CV was the latest rage.

I had a few myself. These days I reckon there should still be some standalone units around.. ? Paia... ? Some of the modular synth vendors?
Old designs... but using a CV to midi interface? at least there should be some DIY kits out there...?

elektro80 · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:07 am Post subject:

You are thinking of joysticks in the sense of game controller joysticks? USB devices?

egw · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:14 am Post subject:

Yes, I'm talking about game controller joysticks.
Since they are mass produced for gamers, you can get good ergonomics for a low price. Maybe the old serial port ones would be easier to convert to midi than the current usb ones.
I was thinking of something along the lines of one of those Midi Solutions boxes, with a serial (or usb) port on one side and a midi out on the other. I guess it would need to be powered.

elektro80 · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 5:16 am Post subject:

Hmm... I think I have seen something like that on the web somewhere.. dunno where. Great idea. Hmm.. I think I want a few of those. Very Happy

bachus · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:22 am Post subject:

I agree that joysticks have great potential but they need better software.

Id like a program that does on screen tracking. Then you could set a parameter at a fixed position in parameter space on the screen, move and set other parameters--move back to a previously fixed parameter and pick it up again etc. That make any sense? Anybody seen anything like this?

elektro80 · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 10:29 am Post subject:

That makes perfect sense. ..And it is possible. This is not advanced in any way. I guess MAX is perfect for this.

pyxl8r · Joined: Nov 12, 2003 Posts: 68 Location: near Trenton, NJ

I use a cordless USB Logitech game controller using Junxion freeware

http://www.steim.org/steim/junxion.html

...which lets you map any controller's triggers/pads to MIDI events. It's pretty easy and versatile (but it's only for the Mac). It's been really fun to use this in concert to liberate myself from the laptop or synth keyboard (I use it with Abelton Live mostly).

There IS PC software like this out there too, like

MIDIJoy here: http://vellocet.com/software/VMIDIJoY.html
and MIDI Joystick here: http://members.magnet.at/hubwin/midi.html
and LiveSticks (PC and Mac) here: http://homepage1.nifty.com/tomo_ya/livesticks-e.html

Cool alternative controller hardware too, at:

http://i-cubex.com/catalog/forums.html
and here at: http://www.ucapps.de/
and here: http://www.ymouse.com/

I haven't invested enough time in this to explore the possibilities much yet, but there seems to be a lot of potential for more-expressive performances with some of this stuff!

-Ken

pyxl8r · Joined: Nov 12, 2003 Posts: 68 Location: near Trenton, NJ

Oh, yeah, improvisation... the topic!

Where would my band be without it!? I'd hate to actually have to LEARN our songs, and there's no better moment than when the whole band comes back from some wild musical tangent and says "Whoa, what the hell was THAT?!!!" I live for that stuff, and fortunately, almost everything we play gets recorded.

-Ken

PS: That Essential Reality P5 USB Virtual Controller Gaming Glove looks like it could be a lot of fun too! Hmmm... and it's ONLY $12.50!

play · Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2004 1:00 pm Post subject:

bachus · Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2004 5:54 am Post subject: