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Uncle Krunkus
Moderator
Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:10 am Post subject:
Stereo Fuzz Circuit Subject description: Please check my schematic? |
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I've been thinking for a while about developing a stereo fuzz circuit. I think it would be just as useful for synths, but I s'pose I'll post about it here instead now. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. Last edited by Uncle Krunkus on Sun Oct 19, 2008 5:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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BobTheDog
Joined: Feb 28, 2005 Posts: 4044 Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:34 am Post subject:
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Sounds interesting, what sort of idea did you have? |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject:
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Yes, how does this stereo fuzz circuit work? Perhaps I could prototype it in ChucK for you? I'm getting into prototyping stuff in ChucK and then building it. _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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Uncle Krunkus
Moderator
Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject:
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Well I wanted to come up with some way of making two unique yet related channels of distortion without using "standard" ways of dividing them.
I have no idea if my idea will work or do anything at all really.
"Gentlemen, all I'm asking you... ...is to witness a demonstration
of movement. ...within the fourth dimension!"
Okay,
Take two (virtually) identical diode clipping fuzz circuits. I think germanium diodes or LEDs (as in the "red fuzz") would work well. I actually have a collection of vintage glass germaniums like the OA71 etc. which I'd like to try. Now bridge the diodes on one of the circuits with a small inductor so that everything below a certain frequency can escape around the side of the diodes and not be clipped. The trick is that the inductor is one side of a small matching transformer. The other side is across the diodes from the other circuit, out of phase. My reasoning is that the diodes will break down at slightly different thresholds, and the transformer will compound or inhibit the clipping in an interactive way.
Sorry to say that it may not be able to be translated into Chuck Les.
Like I said, I need to find time to actually breadboard it and see what happens. Or maybe someone else will save me the effort? _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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Uncle Krunkus
Moderator
Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:46 pm Post subject:
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An interesting thing I realised the other day was that a ring modulator is two transformers with a diode bridge inbetween them.
This idea is basically two half diode bridges with a transformer in between them. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject:
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Uncle Krunkus, I believe that is quite dooable in ChucK, at least in an approximate way. the clipping can be done with a x/(1+|x|) distortion and the LPF module can send out the low frequencies. Do I have the model right? _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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Uncle Krunkus
Moderator
Joined: Jul 11, 2005 Posts: 4761 Location: Sydney, Australia
Audio files: 52
G2 patch files: 1
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:34 pm Post subject:
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Inventor wrote: | Uncle Krunkus, I believe that is quite dooable in ChucK, at least in an approximate way. the clipping can be done with a x/(1+|x|) distortion and the LPF module can send out the low frequencies. Do I have the model right? |
But how do you simulate the interaction between the two opposing flux densities which are inside the transformer? The complexity of that interaction is the only thing I'm counting on to actually make it work. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there. |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject:
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Ah, then you're right, it is not well suited for prototyping in ChucK! Let us know how you fare! _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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Oskar
Joined: Jul 29, 2004 Posts: 1751 Location: Norway
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:23 am Post subject:
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Uncle Krunkus wrote: | I've been thinking for a while about developing a stereo fuzz circuit. I think it would be just as useful for synths, but I s'pose I'll post about it here instead now. |
Smells like it should be a different thread, as it's a very interesting subject in itself! _________________ Where there are too many policemen, there is no liberty. Where there are too many soldiers, there is no peace. Where there are too many lawyers, there is no justice.
Lin Yutang (1895-1976) |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:33 am Post subject:
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Branch the thread off! It'll be your first official duty as keeper of the forum. Make a new thread, I double dare you! _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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BobTheDog
Joined: Feb 28, 2005 Posts: 4044 Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 11:55 am Post subject:
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Unfortunately neither of us as looked at the Moderator tutorial video yet, so this level for forum expertise is beyond us.
Just a sec I will give it a go....... |
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Oskar
Joined: Jul 29, 2004 Posts: 1751 Location: Norway
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:05 pm Post subject:
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Inventor wrote: | Branch the thread off! It'll be your first official duty as keeper of the forum. Make a new thread, I double dare you! |
Well, the reason I own a Mac is I'm too technically inept to run a Windows computer, so I'm really glad there's BobTheDog to solve these impossible tasks! _________________ Where there are too many policemen, there is no liberty. Where there are too many soldiers, there is no peace. Where there are too many lawyers, there is no justice.
Lin Yutang (1895-1976) |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:08 pm Post subject:
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Oh, no! You've opened up the Mac vs. PC can of worms! I quickly shut the lid! _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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BobTheDog
Joined: Feb 28, 2005 Posts: 4044 Location: England
Audio files: 32
G2 patch files: 15
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject:
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Well I managed it on a Mac, lessons are available for the price of a small beer.
I have a sneaky feeling Unkle Krunkus has placed it in the other thread as some kind of moderator initiation test. |
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Oskar
Joined: Jul 29, 2004 Posts: 1751 Location: Norway
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject:
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Inventor wrote: | Oh, no! You've opened up the Mac vs. PC can of worms! I quickly shut the lid! |
It ain't really a major point for me, I'm waddling around, content in my own colossal incompetence, so I wouldn't care to tell anyone anything about computers - it's all voodoo as far as I'm concerned. That's the kind of mod this forum needs! _________________ Where there are too many policemen, there is no liberty. Where there are too many soldiers, there is no peace. Where there are too many lawyers, there is no justice.
Lin Yutang (1895-1976) |
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Oskar
Joined: Jul 29, 2004 Posts: 1751 Location: Norway
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:14 pm Post subject:
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BobTheDog wrote: | Well I managed it on a Mac, lessons are available for the price of a small beer.
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Bexhill, Brighton or Trondheim? Tell you what, that's as good an excuse as any for me to go gallivanting across the North Sea! _________________ Where there are too many policemen, there is no liberty. Where there are too many soldiers, there is no peace. Where there are too many lawyers, there is no justice.
Lin Yutang (1895-1976) |
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Oskar
Joined: Jul 29, 2004 Posts: 1751 Location: Norway
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject:
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Back to Unckle K's original idea - two discreet fuzz/distortion thingys working in parallel/stereo mode. That is really interesting, it's deffo a way of livening proceedings up a bit! As I have no knowledge, practical or theoretical, of electronics, I won't say anything about the technical aspects of such a gizmo, but I was wondering, do you plan to include pan controls, or or do you want to set them panned extreme L-R, or do you see them as two fuzz units working in parallel on the same signal? Or have I completely missed the point? _________________ Where there are too many policemen, there is no liberty. Where there are too many soldiers, there is no peace. Where there are too many lawyers, there is no justice.
Lin Yutang (1895-1976) |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject:
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Having branched off the thread in the name of Uncle Krunkus's stero fuzz circuit, we have now successfully meandered off-topic and confused everything as usual! Is this how you people intend to run the Strings and Things forum? I certainly hope so! _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject:
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Oskar wrote: | Back to Unckle K's original idea - two discreet fuzz/distortion thingys working in parallel/stereo mode. That is really interesting, it's deffo a way of livening proceedings up a bit! As I have no knowledge, practical or theoretical, of electronics, I won't say anything about the technical aspects of such a gizmo, but I was wondering, do you plan to include pan controls, or or do you want to set them panned extreme L-R, or do you see them as two fuzz units working in parallel on the same signal? Or have I completely missed the point? |
How about some AGC with that? I've often thought that effects like distortion could use some AGC so they work at all amplitudes, not just on the loud stuff. _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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Oskar
Joined: Jul 29, 2004 Posts: 1751 Location: Norway
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject:
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Inventor wrote: | Oskar wrote: | Back to Unckle K's original idea - two discreet fuzz/distortion thingys working in parallel/stereo mode. That is really interesting, it's deffo a way of livening proceedings up a bit! As I have no knowledge, practical or theoretical, of electronics, I won't say anything about the technical aspects of such a gizmo, but I was wondering, do you plan to include pan controls, or or do you want to set them panned extreme L-R, or do you see them as two fuzz units working in parallel on the same signal? Or have I completely missed the point? |
How about some AGC with that? I've often thought that effects like distortion could use some AGC so they work at all amplitudes, not just on the loud stuff. |
For the benefit of your non-technical mod, what's an AGC? In layman's terms please. Feel free to meander! _________________ Where there are too many policemen, there is no liberty. Where there are too many soldiers, there is no peace. Where there are too many lawyers, there is no justice.
Lin Yutang (1895-1976) |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject:
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AGC is Automatic Gain Control. It's a variable gain amplifier that boosts the signal more when the signal is low and less when it is strong. It is more difficult to accomplish in hardware than in software, in my experience.
The idea behind say AGC and fuzz is that fuzz clips off the top of the signal, but only when the signal is strong enough to be clipped off. With AGC you would clip it off all the time. That is, if I understand fuzz correctly to be a clipping circuit. _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:42 pm Post subject:
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Inventor wrote: | AGC is Automatic Gain Control. It's a variable gain amplifier [...] |
Guess a guitar player would use the word "compressor" ... _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Oskar
Joined: Jul 29, 2004 Posts: 1751 Location: Norway
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject:
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Blue Hell wrote: | Inventor wrote: | AGC is Automatic Gain Control. It's a variable gain amplifier [...] |
Guess a guitar player would use the word "compressor" ... |
Right, them's cool things! Thanks Jan! _________________ Where there are too many policemen, there is no liberty. Where there are too many soldiers, there is no peace. Where there are too many lawyers, there is no justice.
Lin Yutang (1895-1976) |
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Inventor
Stream Operator
Joined: Oct 13, 2007 Posts: 6221 Location: near Austin, Tx, USA
Audio files: 267
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject:
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Blue Hell wrote: | Inventor wrote: | AGC is Automatic Gain Control. It's a variable gain amplifier [...] |
Guess a guitar player would use the word "compressor" ... |
Oh, I didn't know a compressor was an AGC, I thought a compressor was a circuit with a non-linear transfer function that has lower gain at higher amplitudes.
By AGC, I neglected to mention, I meant that the circuit would have a rectifier and low pass filter controlling the AGC gain so that the signal is boosted or attenuated by the *average* (or, technically, the *peak*) of it's amplitude, not the instantaneous amplitude. I have done this in software, but not in hardware.
There is a subtle but key difference there. _________________ "Let's make noise for peace." - Kijjaz |
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blue hell
Site Admin
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24079 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 278
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 2:03 pm Post subject:
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Inventor wrote: | Oh, I didn't know a compressor was an AGC, I thought a compressor was a circuit with a non-linear transfer function that has lower gain at higher amplitudes. |
One way to build a compressor is to use a light bulb and an LDR, on high amplitudes the light gets brighter and the LDR then "shorts" the signal more; this has some slowness just like an AGC has. _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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