Real-time record and sample manipulator

TheRain

This patch shows off some fun sample reversing effects and playback speed control that can be done using delays on the G2. It is a tweaked version of the patch from this e-mail ---> http://mail.electro-music.com/pipermail/nord-modular/2004-August/000359.html from Johannes Taelman.

Make sure your sequencing is running. I put a crappy little sequence in here just for quick demo. The sampler is set to trigger from the keyboard, but not pitch track. I like using KB Hold to mess with the samples. On the front panel controls, if you have a G2 keyboard, there is a "Reverse Switch" which will instantely change the sample to playing reverse. Play around with the Playback rate knob (which is attached to the Playback LFO) and also the Start Point offset will modulate where the playback will begin on the next trigger. I threw in Rob's level compensated filter model as well.

Recorder.pch2

Description:

Fun sampling effects with reverse and playback speed.

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Recorder.pch2

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recordrevdemo.mp3

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recordrevdemo.mp3

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Afro88 · Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 1:56 am Post subject:

Wow

Excellent patch!! Even with extreme playing the delay loop never stuffs up! Really clever Very Happy

I'm guessing that the input/output2 feedback loop keeps the sample solid, which leaves output 1 available for the reverse and speed changes without screwing the loop up.

I can see that the first LFO is for the pitch/speed of the delay loop, but what's LFOB doing? And the whole section in aqua is beyond my understanding too Embarassed

ian-s · Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 3:00 am Post subject:

Yes, a very clever patch. I was having difficulty following it as well so I stripped it back.

This is a basic version that uses just the one LFO. Using the clock sync mode, 1/2 gives a perfect reverse, 1/1 has no output and slower rates give various speed forward loops. The phase control on the LFO shifts the loop start around in relation to the input.

Push start, the eventseq gives a 1 bar delay to capture the input, then it just loops.

Reverse.pch2

Description:

1 bar reverse

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Reverse.pch2

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Fozzie · Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:46 am Post subject:

This is very very cool!!! I have tried to get it to work with clocksynced delays (quad delay; tried on the demo), but although it appears to work on 120bpm, pitch is off at other tempi. Why? If I understand correctly, the LFO should do the correct 'reverse-delay' sweep in sync mode, right? And the delay length should also work. Any ideas?

TheRain · Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 8:23 am Post subject:

Thanks Ian... that looks much more tidy. To be honest, I didn't understand how the original person accomplished this, but I realized it was the LFO that was controlling the playback speed so I figured out how to reverse it too. Maybe your patch will help to understand what is actually being done here.

Blue Hell · Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 9:15 am Post subject:

Ok I now understand the arlier remarks in the other thread about the delay being needed .. there was a lot more going on ... and also there is some clever patching going on here, I'm lost a bit still :-)

And thanks Ian for simplifying it, that will give me some chance at least to get it.

I had seen Johannes Taelman's patch before, but had never thought this could be done with it.

Interesting !

Fozzie · Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:59 am Post subject:

TheRain · Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject:

Hey fozz.. thanks, I think you're getting into it pretty well here. Still some mental blockage for me... I think it's mainly due to me not knowing how the delay signal flow works inside the delay module itself.

Fozzie · Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:18 pm Post subject:

ah, got it in reverse Embarassed

The LFO starts the readout pointer at zero delay, and increases the delay in 2 beats to 2 secs. So the input is going at a steady rate in from left to right (visually represented), but the output is going in the same direction at double speed, effectively outputting the samples in reverse order. After half a measure, it starts again at sample 0, wich has shifted half a measure in the meantime and it outputs the 2nd half of the measure.

I think Wink

[edit] for clarification: at the start of the first half of the measure, the delay starts outputting the samples from the input of the previous 1/2 measure in reverse order. After that, it goes back to 0 instantly (long live digital sawtooths) and does the same with the rest of the measure, that was put into the delay line in the 2 beats just described. Don't know if I have enough teaching skills to explain it to others, but I'm sure I get it know Idea

Blue Hell · Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:33 pm Post subject:

TheRain · Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject:

Is anyone else totally baffled by how the original patch started the sample over from the beginning at every keypress?? That's what really got me about this patch originally...

Afro88 · Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject:

Having a look at the original patch, the aqua modules are named "mod64". Also, both LFO's are clocked at 30 bpm (so the playback is the exact same pitch as the recording), with one positive and phased at 357, the other pos inv with no phase. When both LFO's are added together, they don't do much - the value steadily increases to 64. Then when one resets, it jumps to another number then starts increasing again, sometimes jumping from -64 to +64. After the "mod64" operation, the output moves from -64 to +64 smoothly and steadily, just like if 1 LFO were connected. However, when the second LFO is reset, the value jumps somewhere else then keeps moving up steadily. Somehow, by using the two LFO's through the "mod64" operation, the delay "pointer" is reset to the precise location of the start of the recording when the 2nd LFO is reset. This location is different every time, because the delay doesn't care what position the lfo is in, just that the signal it receives is steadily moving one way or another.

Any ideas?

[btw, I used the midi send to a constant module trick to see what the values were doing]

Spandex · Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject:

Hi... me noob. Just got a G2. Huzzah.

I *really* want to understand this patch fully.. so I hope you don't mind if i just think aloud.. then tell me if I've understood right Smile

So what you've got is a 2sec buffer with a "write head" moving through it at audio rate (i.e. complete cycle once every 2 seconds). For the normal delay the "read head" is 2 secs behind the "write head" (i.e. in fact JUST ahead of the write head.. because it's a loop.. and it's reading the data written there 2 secs ago just before the "write head" rewrites it).

Then we have a second "read head" which is also hardwired to follow the write head at some distance... but on this one follows at a variable distance.. and we have an LFO which increases that distance at EXACTLY the same rate that the write head is moving.. which means this "read head" essentially stands still in the delay buffer.. resulting in no sound (actually a very quiet high pitched squeal.. due to slight innacuracies?)

Then there's a second LFO which is simply added to the first... so now this second LFO actually controls the read point and lets you "scrub" thru the buffer.. and in the original example it's moving at the same rate as the first LFO.. i.e. playing back at normal speed.

But it doesn't need to be a second LFO... it can be any signal you want to use to "scrub" thru the sample. I tried connecting the wheel in instead and it certainly seemed to be the case.. tho it needs a smoother. So you can scrub/scratch with the pitch wheel... then I attached a knob as well.. and (cos it all wraps into the right range with the mod64 bit) you can use them in combination.. e.g. scrub with the knob til u find the beat you want then "scratch" with it on the wheel Smile

And the mod64 stuff is to wrap it all the right range I think? Scratchy Scrubber patch attached.

Scratchy Scrubber.pch2

Description:

Modified version of the Recorder127 patch.

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Scratchy Scrubber.pch2

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TheRain · Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject:

VERY cool! Yah, you've got the concept down. I am impressed with what you've done with this. You know, this has so many potential uses, I hope that people recognize the level of control you have with this.

Spandex · Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:21 pm Post subject:

Yeah.. I just realised you can do it with a quad delay too...

I'm just fiddling with something now that I've got 4 sequencers controlling the phase and polarity of the "scrub" LFO signal so that it "shuffles" whatever audio is coming in.. playing bits backwards and forwards. I'd like to say it sounds good.. but it doesn't.. it's a wobbly mess Smile

There's lots can be done with this tho....

eposk · Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject:

this is insane!

Afro88 · Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:28 am Post subject:

That's really really cool. Thanks for the patch and explanation of the mod64 thing Spandex! The real beauty of this patch is realised when an external audio source is used.

For the sake of being a technological wanker, I ran some audio from my turntable into the G2 and scratched it digitally with the mod wheel Razz

cebec · Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 9:15 am Post subject:

turning down the mod64 removes the squeal and cripples the effect somewhat but i suspect there may be a workaround. rolling off the highs with the patch's filter helps...
this technique, by the way, is very exciting! i can't wait to hear and try new angles.

TheRain · Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject:

Sorry to detract, but i wanted to say that my "Lady Killer" performance in the performances section uses Spandex's additions.

jamos · Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:13 pm Post subject:

I'm having a bit of fun with this myself... thanks for posting this!

sheridan · Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:37 am Post subject:

Wow! This is all really amazing. I first heard the above mentioned Lady Killer patch and couldn't believe what I was hearing from my G2. Then I came here (thanks to the 'thanks to spandex' line on that post) and now I'm just blown away! Thanks to Spandex's explanation, I can even kind of get my head round it all.

Cool! Very Happy

Burp · Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:25 am Post subject: new variation on original patch

This is a great thread!
Thanks for you all to make it understandable what is going on.

I made a variation on the original patch.
A sample/synth player with some hands on knobs and buttons and a sub oscillator (tracks the pitch of the sample) to beef-up the sample a bit if needed.

The sample is 500ms, you can play 8 samples on an unexpanded G2.

Just record a piece of audio:
- by pressing A1 recording start immediately
- by pressing A2, recording starts when the input signal is loud enough
- A3 shows if the synth is recording (it uses bus3/4 VU out)

And play with it, 8 notes simultaneously, pitch stick, wheel (vibrato)... everything works with if.
- You can reverse direction of sample (A6)
- set start, length of sample.
- tune sample (A2- Cool

- change subosc...

I added the subosc, it works nice when recording a piece of whistle or voice (aaahh, ooohh etc), it beefs the sound a bit.

There is one problem, which i hope someone can come with a solution:
The sample gives some glitches in the sound, as if it's played from vinyl. I like it: it gives some character.
But if someone nows how to remove this, that would be nice!
The glitches seem to be exactly on the moments that one of the LFO's that handle the read-out pointer shifts from 64>0 or 0>64. I tried some LP's like in the original patch, and i tried the envelope (after the delay) in the original patch, but none helped, or did i something wrong?

KeySampler v2.pch2

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KeySampler v2.pch2

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Burp

And another approach, i wandered if i could have cheaper voices by using the same sample for every voice. So i put the sample in the FX area, made it a 4 tap delay and made some adjustments...

Could need some more work, but the basic idea for sharing.

MaxKeySampler v1.pch2

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MaxKeySampler v1.pch2

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