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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
Boss SE-50 voice effect
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monobass



Joined: Nov 30, 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:55 pm    Post subject: Boss SE-50 voice effect Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Originally posted by 'Hyde'.

Title: Does anyone feel like taking a shot at this?

ok. this MP3:

[note : link edited out by Blue Hell]

is a cover of Billy Squire's 'The Stroke' by Mr. Bungle circa 1992. ever since 1992 i have been hunting for this particular effect. i even asked Mike Patton himself what effects box he used on the Mr. Bungle '92 tour and he said it was a Boss SE-50 (which i now own). However - i cannot seem to emulate this effect as well as what you hear. i know he was using only the SE-50 to create this vocal effect. i talked at length with him about it and have videos showing it's employment. he pretty much said that he fiddled around with a preset patch's settings and eventually was like - wow, that's cool and saved it.

i want to know if my G2X Engine is capable of creating something as close as possible to this. i am sure its a variation of the 'Multi Pitch Shifter' patch in the SE-50.

basically its a mono input that gets directed straight out (with level adjustment) and also goes into 4 separate pre-delays (all set different - i believe this is the varying modulation voices i hear). from there the signals go into their own pitch shifters (whose values can go +/- 2 octaves in either direction i.e. -24 to +24). of the 4 separate pre-delay/pitch-shifted signals, the first can also be fed back into itself. the signals then go to their own levels and pan pots, combine with the directed original signal, and at the end of all that, are finally output as a stereo signal.

i can get close but not nail it with my SE-50. i believe it should be possible in the G2X Engine and probably sound even better. the SE-50 is a 16 bit guitar effects processor. i have tried to make this patch in my G2X Engine but met with very limited success - if i would even go that far lol. so - any adventurous and bored people wanna help me out with this? please and thanks. Smile

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Don't push it steve, please.
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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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monobass



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I was just doing what Kassen suggested

Kassen wrote:
How about repeating the question in a polite style and attaching a fragement of the song that would give a good clear image of the effect you are after without being the complete work. Maybe something like 20 seconds or so.

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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The polite way would have included a bit of explanation as to what you were up to, I now simply assumed you reposted a link to the entire song.

Sorry I don't feel like playing.

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Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Sure, but still this is the original Q and it was actually reasonably interesting. Effects like these are fun, sounds cool and you really don´t need a G2 in order to get there .
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monobass



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

No.. it is a section of the song. As it clearly said in the post you deleted Jan.

http://www.polyfather.com/old/Stroke.mp3

Which perfectly fits in with "fair-use" copyright laws.

"Fair use is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holders, such as use for scholarship or review."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

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Last edited by monobass on Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Great! If you'd only take care of that 404 error we have a good start for a compromise as far as I can see.
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monobass



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I missed out a w... fixed now.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

_ Steve _ wrote:
No.. it is a section of the song. As it clearly said in the post you deleted Jan.


I'm sorry, I didn't see it.

A bit of explanation as to what you were up to would have been appreciated, I'm pretty disappointed actually you didn't try that but tried me instead.

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also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I suggest we have a go at this bossed patton efx thingie in this thread. We have other threads for the good old foodfights. I am sure we even have a subforum for all the wonders of decapitation too.
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Kassen
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ok, well, it won't win any awards for clear comunication but to me this looks like a acceptable compromise.

can we get back to the business at hand? to me this still sounds like a deep slow chorus.

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monobass



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Kassen wrote:
ok, well, it won't win any awards for clear comunication but to me this looks like a acceptable compromise.


I'm patching as we speak.

It was clearly communicated as I posted the clip originally as post two in this thread, with a sentence that explained it was a section of the original. Of course Jan pulled his favourite trick of deleting my post and confusing the situation further.

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elektro80
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Like.. level the input with a compressor or some cl device.. that way you can nearly brickwall the feed close to internal clipping i n some stage of the chorus box. then kinda do the same on the output with a very fast rise and realease. This will increase and stress the "garbling factor". Else like Kassen says
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Thinking stereo would be fine for a studio recording. You could even do the output with an 1176 set at ABM and try to skim the most modulated noises into a full ABM blast. Works fine with violin. A final touch with EQ after that one and then final levelling with whatever feels right.
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Johan R



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

_ Steve _ wrote:
Of course Jan pulled his favourite trick of deleting my post and confusing the situation further.


I think you would make a great site admin, Steve!
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Hyde



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

i'm sure this will get deleted too... this may or may not be the patch he is using - but out of all the effects in the unit i get closest with this one.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Any special reason why you think it should be deleted?
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Whatever, the stuff you posted is OK. Follow my suggestions and see what you get. That approach to using such devices is called SGB ( spectral gain battering )
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paul e.



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

spectral gain battering sound fun !

i'll take a stab and say that first the effect is acheived by more than just the pitch shifting

the distortion is playing a role somehow...modulating the pitch by squaring the waveform in interesting ways..or something like that..and the percussion track seems to be subjected to the same distortion effect and those hits also seem to be modulating the sound somehow

the distortion is pretty raw annd almost sounds like overloading a modern solid state mixing board

guesses

i dunno very hard to say of course, as many times people find those unique things by lucky turns of the knob at the last second..

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mhhh , come to think of it, actually Spectral Gain Battering , as Sir Elektro80 suggested, is a good term!..nice one

well maybe Spectral Gain Splattering

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Paul, you have already heard a lot of SGB stuff. The ryhthmic noise sections in "Transmigration" were all SGB as well as the bass sequence at the start of A Scanner Darkly. I have a selection of SGB style patches I am using for all sorts of stuff.
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Unfed



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

yeah, sounds like a distorted pitch-shift of sorts.

have you heard the albums 'Too Dark Park' or 'Last Rights' by Skinny Puppy? the vocalist uses this effect a bit, it sounds better than in this example.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Unfed wrote:
yeah, sounds like a distorted pitch-shift of sorts.

have you heard the albums 'Too Dark Park' or 'Last Rights' by Skinny Puppy? the vocalist uses this effect a bit, it sounds better than in this example.

i just listened to them and i didn't hear it - not in any context that was audibly similar to Patton's effect.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

it's better to be orginal and experimental, than worry about copying another's sound..imo
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

paul e. wrote:
it's better to be orginal and experimental, than worry about copying another's sound..imo


It's also a great springboard for being original and experimental.

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