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 Forum index » Clavia Nord Modular » Nord Modular G2 Discussion
G2X with Windows Vista ??
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nemystic



Joined: Nov 15, 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:05 pm    Post subject: G2X with Windows Vista ??
Subject description: USB driver unknown !!
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I tried to install the G2X drivers on Windows Vista 64bits, Vista doesn't want to use the WInXp drivers !
Does someone know when Clavia will release the vista drivers ?

Thanks !
Laurent.
http://www.nemystic.net
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elektro80
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Will they ever?

Shocked


Trivia: Keep off Vista for now. It works fine for the PC in the kitchen for finding recipes on the web and such. For serious DAW use and such, stay off the Vista.

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nemystic



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I think Vista is a great OS, since I use Vista 64bits on my PC with Cubase 4 and the Motu UltraLite audio interface, my system is more powerfull and Asio Latence is very low, everythings are better with Vista 64bits.
Some people say that Vista is a "bigbrother" OS, with a lot of Microsoft spywares, I think it's false, it's due to the OS ware between MAC OSX, Linux, and WIndows... WIndos XP had the same problem in 2001...
There is a DRM process with vista, I think it's a good thing for musicians and producers, it's a bad thing for hackers and online piracy !

I hope a clavia driver will be available for Vista, they should, because they continue to sell the G2X, they must provide a Vista driver, don't you think ?

Laurent
http://www.nemystic.net
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SecretAsianMan



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nemystic wrote:
my system is more powerfull ... everythings are better with Vista 64bits.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but a vast majority of the code running on your "64-bit" OS is actually 32-bit code running on the WoW64 translation layer. Since that translation layer creates some overhead, you're actually going to get slightly worse performance running a 64-bit Windows OS. This will not change until a majority of the software out there is available with native 64-bit binaries. That will not be the case for several years. By then, Vista and your current computer will be long gone.

Unless you're running a specific, known 64-bit app, such as SQL Server 2005, there currently is no reason to install a 64-bit Windows.

nemystic wrote:
There is a DRM process with vista, I think it's a good thing for musicians and producers, it's a bad thing for hackers and online piracy !

It's especially good for the RIAA and labels, and not so good for consumers. Take whatever meaning you want from that.
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nemystic



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The new core of the Vista OS is more powerfull, maybe, the vista 32bits is better than the 64bits ?

Most modern operating systems have built-in support for Compatibility Mode. Microsoft Windows supports this through the Windows on Windows subsystem (WoW). The WOW.DLL converts function arguments from 32-bit to 64-bit and return values from 64-bit to 32-bit. This is a low-overhead conversion, as most of the calculations involve adding leading zeros; the address translation is from flat 32-bit to flat 64-bit

I have 3 OS on my PC, I have A Windows XP PRO SP2 (32 bits), a Windows Vista (64bits) and a Suze Linux 10.1 (64 bits).
I made some comparaisons with the 2 Windows OS, the Asio latence is better with vista, MOTU release special Vista 64 bit drivers for the audio interface, with vista, it seems that USB and Firewire devices eat less CPU !!
I think Vista is better with 2 core CPU, the OS is more optimized for complex architecturs.

Vista is better for the sound management, now it's easy to choose the audio output you want for listening to your MP3s with WMP or WInamp, maybe it's due to the audio driver, I don't know, but for my configuration, Vista is a great OS !

Cool Cool

Last edited by nemystic on Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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nemystic



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

SecretAsianMan wrote:

It's especially good for the RIAA and labels, and not so good for consumers. Take whatever meaning you want from that.


Yes, but I am an independant Producer, I want to sell my music, I spend a lot of time for my music, it's normal to be paid !

If the consumer don't want to pay, he is not a consumer but a robber, no ?
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nemystic wrote:
Yes, but I am an independant Producer, I want to sell my music, I spend a lot of time for my music, it's normal to be paid !

If the consumer don't want to pay, he is not a consumer but a robber, no ?
8)


Yes of course and the best way to ensure that is DRM. It's a bit off topic here but In fact people should have a transmitting chip implanted in their heads such that whenever they hear a tune a fee will be automatically transferred to the owner of the material. This should of course include situations where tune is played by the thought processes in the head itself, after all that's plain copyright infringement would it not be paid for.

Re. the on-topic stuff, Clavia has no 64 bit drivers and it would surprise me when they would make them. The use of 64 bit OSes for musical purposes is a bit rare still.

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nemystic



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
[In fact people should have a transmitting chip implanted in their heads such that whenever they hear a tune a fee will be automatically transferred to the owner of the material. This should of course include situations where tune is played by the thought processes in the head itself, after all that's plain copyright infringement would it not be paid for.


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topsoil2000



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I installed the 32 bit version of Vista the other day. I obviously tried to install the driver and got the messaged it wasn't a verified driver. I expected that. I installed it anyway then installed the 1.40 version of the software. Like the guy above, the program loads but no link between the two exists. There is one thing that is interesting though. While in the program, if u unplug the USB cable from the computer, you do get a message from the editor saying the cable is unplugged. I would assume it sees the driver, but can't communicate with it. Sounds like an easy fix to me.
This kind of thing always happens when new OS's come out. I am not totally disappointed yet. I just hope at some juncture in the near future, the driver is fixed. I would hate to be stuck with XP which will progressively get unsupported in the future.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

topsoil2000 wrote:
Like the guy above, the program loads but no link between the two exists.


There should be some compatibilty modes in Vista, did you try that ?

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jamos



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

The problem with Windows Vista, esp. as regards Clavia, is that Vista now demands that drivers be Microsoft-certified; if they're not, they won't run.

The certification process is expensive and requires many engineer-hours; therefore it's difficult for small companies like Clavia. (Hell, it's difficult for big companies like Creative, but they are at least large enough to have the finances and engineers for the job.) If Clavia wants the G2 to be compatible with Vista - and I hope they do - they will eventually have to bite the bullet and pay for certification.

BTW, on a related topic: this is part of the reason I tend to get a little torqued when I hear people asking for fundamental changes (like sampling) or even less difficult, but still major changes (like more than 8 variations) for the G2. Their engineers have limited time to spend on the G2; if they perceive that the customers are never happy with the G2, because we are asking for so many fundamental changes, they're likely to shift their efforts to other projects (like the organs and other vanilla keyboards) rather than to spend time keeping the G2 up to date.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jamos wrote:
[...]Their engineers have limited time to spend on the G2; if they perceive that the customers are never happy with the G2, because we are asking for so many fundamental changes, they're likely to shift their efforts to other projects (like the organs and other vanilla keyboards) rather than to spend time keeping the G2 up to date.


I don't think our nagging would be the reason, I think Clavia simply sees a better opportunity to sell organs instead of synths of the freaky kind. Still it might be good to complain from a positive attitude only ... but most complaints made here do that I think, saying it could even be better, not that it sucks.

re. the drivers, I read things about user mode drivers - would those have to be signed as well ?

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G2egory



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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

This new mandatory driver-certification business practice by microsoft regarding the vista operating system is a way for them to add recurring revenue. Requiring all driver updates to be microsoft-certified will, however, reduce the number of firmware and software updates and lead to wide-spread customer dissatisfaction. I am waiting for this business practice to be discontinued before upgrading to vista. If enough consumers, hardware and software companies say no to continuous certification and hold their ground, microsoft will have to retire this business practice. It has happened before with some of their other ill-conceived business practices.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Maybe it's time to wake up some anti-trust authorities ... we got an OS without IE that way ... that is ... the possibility to buy it (at least in this part of the world, but I guess no one does so).
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topsoil2000



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Blue Hell wrote:
topsoil2000 wrote:
Like the guy above, the program loads but no link between the two exists.


There should be some compatibilty modes in Vista, did you try that ?


Ya, i just tried that to test it out. Tried from 98, xp, 2000, and 2003. None of them worked. Guess its time to go back to XP. Vista is nice, but its just no compatible with all my audio stuff yet to be a benefit.
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t4k4sh1



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

topsoil2000 wrote:
Blue Hell wrote:
topsoil2000 wrote:
Like the guy above, the program loads but no link between the two exists.


There should be some compatibilty modes in Vista, did you try that ?


Ya, i just tried that to test it out. Tried from 98, xp, 2000, and 2003. None of them worked. Guess its time to go back to XP. Vista is nice, but its just no compatible with all my audio stuff yet to be a benefit.


same here. no luck.

Takashi
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Nodular



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

nemystic wrote:
I hope a clavia driver will be available for Vista, they should, because they continue to sell the G2X, they must provide a Vista driver, don't you think ?

VISTA specifications, as someone said, are the longest suicide letter ever written.

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Derek Cook



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm not convinced yet that Vista gives me anything over XP other than a nicer GUI (but with a huge performance hit), and I certainly don't plan to be "bleeding edge", my music PC is staying a lean and mean XP based system for as long as possible! Smile

Mandated Driver Signing is an huge issue as mentioned above, maybe it's time for people to start thinking about platform neutral technologies again. I'm a huge fan of Java for this, and with modern processors and with the modern Java virtual machines, you're hard pushed to see any speed impact, and of course you only need to write for one "platform".

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I'm no lawyer, but I would think that mandated driver registration would be illegal.
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Blue Hell
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

mosc wrote:
I'm no lawyer, but I would think that mandated driver registration would be illegal.


I'm not a lawyer either, but I agree.

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jima



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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:00 pm    Post subject: WARNING - Gratuitous use of emoticons!!!!! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I have installed Vista about three or four times now and each time I have felt an overpowering urge to and de-installed it. It is a sluggish obscenity which in an ideal world would have been exposed on a bare mountain. As to mandatory driver signing - M$ arrogance at it's worst. I don't think that will last long.

Just to rub salt into the wound - I have just got an Amiga 4000 online (thanks, Derek love ) and am forcefully reminded once again how elegance, capability and style don't have to occupy gigabytes of hard disk and RAM. sigh

I expect many will have to bow to the inevitable (including Clavia) but for me XP will rule for some time to come. Heck, my domain controller still runs on NT4 and no way will that get replaced, it's so old now it has become virus-proof Laughing
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Derek Cook



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: WARNING - Gratuitous use of emoticons!!!!! Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

jima wrote:

Just to rub salt into the wound - I have just got an Amiga 4000 online (thanks, Derek love ) and am forcefully reminded once again how elegance, capability and style don't have to occupy gigabytes of hard disk and RAM. sigh



Hi, Jim. Smile Yup, I remember running the "Bars and Pipes" MIDI sequencer on an Amiga A1200 in 2MB of RAM, an (IIRC) 14 MHz 68020 and a minuscule amount of hard disk space. Glad the A4000 has come back to life and found a good home.

Vista won't be on my horizon for a long time.

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T7



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Anyone contacted Clavia yet?
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ian-s



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just spoke to my local computer store. Vista does not require signed drivers.

This must just be a compatibility problem.

Maybe Clavia is waiting for Vista to stabilize. The issue could be a problem with the Microsoft code.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

g2ian wrote:
Vista does not require signed drivers.


Right, well then it's not illegal either I guess Laughing

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