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 Forum index » DIY Hardware and Software » Lunettas - circuits inspired by Stanley Lunetta
4051 oscillator
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 2:14 am    Post subject: 4051 oscillator Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I can think of more complex ways to do this but this works and is easier Smile



http://electro-music.com/forum/post-349052.html#349052I found the thread which inspred this too Very Happy thanks spacebones!

Forgot to add, output is from "X".


4051 osc diagram.jpg
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Other inputs are not connected, connecting only A means that only Y0 and Y1 are in operation. All other inputs will not be connected to the output.
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4051 osc diagram.jpg



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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:36 am    Post subject: The Jingler
Subject description: noisy and bleeping sounds from a single 4051 chip
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nice idea, played around a bit with it and ended up with a circuit I called the Jingler Wink
I noticed the sound depend a lot on the powersupply, it likes it a bit dirty, so that's why I put in a 1 ohm resistor.
Don't place a decoupling cap over the chip! you can experiment a bit with the values to get some different sounds
but I'll leave it like this. I used a HEF4051 chip myself, I have no idea if it will work and how it will sound with another chip.

might record some sounds later.


Jingler.gif
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noisy and bleeping sounds from a single 4051 chip
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Jingler.gif



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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That is brilliant Laughing ... I have a circuit named after my username Shocked I feel like a professional now!!! Thankyou!

Can we get some further explanation of the operation of your circuit please?

Mine is simple, A switches between Q1 and Q0, or Y1 and Y0 whatever you want to call them; the first two inputs/outputs. It switches X (the common output) to Q1 when A is 1 and Q0 when A is 0, so I just connected Q0 to 1 (or high) and Q1 to 0 (or low), then X to A. This produces very very very high frequency oscillation, the CR network merely causes a delay as the cap charges/discharges giving you a slower oscillation.

I couldn't get this to work again, probably because my supply was nice and clean Laughing
Love seeing your work phobos Smile Keep it up Very Happy

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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JingleJoe wrote:
Can we get some further explanation of the operation of your circuit please?

LOL, ehmmm
well I took your idea and used that on the other inputs aswell, so I have
A0 oscillating with Y0, Y1 (when A1, A2 are low)
A1 oscillating with Y0, Y2 (when A0, A2 are low)
A2 oscillating with Y0, Y4 (when A0, A1 are low)
I added one side of the pots to ground with a resistor because this seemed to give some wider range on the pots.
But most of it is just done by experimentation and I have no idea what's really happening. (I think the 4051 doesn't know what's happening to it either Laughing )

here are some sounds I recorded last night while working on it, it changed a bit since but gives you a general idea.


PHOBoS - Jingler Breadboard experiment (mar 30, 2012).mp3
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I see now! It all makes sense Smile
PHOBoS wrote:
I think the 4051 doesn't know what's happening to it either Laughing

hahahahaha Fantastic Very Happy If the chip could talk I bet it would sound like this mountain:


I allways feel a bit guilty or somehow like I've done something bad when I just experiment without knowing what I'm doing. I feel like I have to figure things out and understand them completely before I can do them. But without that kind of experimentation everything would be boring, a dilemma for myself. Anyways, I work around it somehow Rolling Eyes

At first your sound file didnt all download for some reason, but I am downloading it all now, so far "jingler" sounds like the least appropriate name for it ever Laughing Therefore, I approve. Wink

... my god this thing sound amazing Shocked are you using the LDR much? I am making one Very Happy

P.S. I think there may be a mistake in your diagram; should A0 be connected to Y1?

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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

JingleJoe wrote:
hahahahaha Fantastic Very Happy If the chip could talk I bet it would sound like this mountain:...

ROFL, yes exactly! Laughing

Quote:
I allways feel a bit guilty or somehow like I've done something bad when I just experiment without knowing what I'm doing. I feel like I have to figure things out and understand them completely before I can do them. But without that kind of experimentation everything would be boring, a dilemma for myself. Anyways, I work around it somehow Rolling Eyes

heh, allthough I don't even know that much about electronics, I sometimes think it get's in the way of discovering new things.
so don't feel guilty I'm jealous Wink

Quote:
P.S. I think there may be a mistake in your diagram; should A0 be connected to Y1?

hmm, no I don't see any mistakes except for a dot missing on the ground connection of pin5.
but,..
I couldn't resist trying some oscillators attached to some of the Q/Y pins = more fun Shocked
so that's gonna be 4 oscillators build around a 4093 with indicator LED's
(maybe LDR's for speed control if you want to get really crazy)
connected to pins 15, 12, 1, 5
and a switch to still connect them to ground aswell Very Happy
(this might also help to get some noise on the powerlines)

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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Just thinking about adding the supply noise to kick start this oscillator; maybe we could add a tiny resistor on the ground pin of the chip creating an artificial ground loop? Or maybe a transistor connected accross the power supply with the base left unconnected?

I can't wait to give this a try, I fried a 4051 recently Rolling Eyes but I have another one which I'll try all your ideas with Smile

P.S. I realized where I misunderstood your diagram, hours later when I was away from the computer Laughing

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tjookum



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Really cool stuff, the kind of "out of the box" thinking I love. And it sounds quite good aswell, really different and interesting.

Quote:

Quote:
I allways feel a bit guilty or somehow like I've done something bad when I just experiment without knowing what I'm doing. I feel like I have to figure things out and understand them completely before I can do them. But without that kind of experimentation everything would be boring, a dilemma for myself. Anyways, I work around it somehow

heh, allthough I don't even know that much about electronics, I sometimes think it get's in the way of discovering new things.
so don't feel guilty I'm jealous

Exactly! I can appreciate proper design as much as the next guy but generally speaking I just can't be bothered. I would never have known anything about electronics if it wasn't for the lunetta approach of just experimenting and having fun. It's not rocket science Smile.

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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

ehm, well,.. this is what it sounds like with the 4 NAND Oscillators added (no switches so always on)

quite interesting,.. Twisted Evil


PHOBoS - Jingler Breadboard Experiments (Apr 02, 2012) - Jingler all the Way.mp3
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 Filename:  PHOBoS - Jingler Breadboard Experiments (Apr 02, 2012) - Jingler all the Way.mp3
 Filesize:  9.95 MB
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

o and as for noisy power how's this idea:
just put a CMOS chip on top of it (16 pin)
and only connect the powerpins to the 4051, leave all the other pins floating.

thanks for the piggybacking idea tjookum! thumb up

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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That is such a fucking sound discombobulator Surprised Shocked Hopefully parts arrive tomorrow, then I will be able to finish my current devices and work on one of these crazy things Very Happy
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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

I just finished the jingler and as I kinda expected it sounds nothing like it did on breadboard Rolling Eyes , but it still makes some noise.
I did add a 100 ohm pot for starve (wish I did that before I finished it and put it on the panel), but that still doesn't give me all those nice sounds.
I might replace the 100uF cap, I know it made a huge difference what size cap I used on the breadboard.
btw modulating pin 1 has a very prominent effect so I added an extra jack for an external CLk. (using the switch contact on the jack
to change from the internal LFO to external)
anyway, here's the 'final' schematic, you can always expand and change whatever you like off course,
and a photo. (I'll post 2 more in the 2012 build thread).

Idea hmm, I just realized I haven't tested with the same PSU I used when breadboarding. And I think there migth be
something wrong with that one causing the voltage to fluctuate more than usual.
Which makes me think of making a LM317 based supply but adding some kind of noise source so the voltage will vary


Jingler2.gif
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Jingler - 04.jpg
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Jingler - 04.jpg



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Last edited by PHOBoS on Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JingleJoe



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

That is friggen awesome Surprised I can't believe I inspired this!
This is seriously like the first time I have really invented a circuit, I mean it;s just a funny relaxation oscillator (I think) but I figured out how to combobulate it with this chip so I am very happy with this Very Happy!!!
Your device looks simply amazing! What will it's fate be?

I have yet to make one of these Sad I don't know where all my time goes! I'll do it tomorrow though because the bank and the post office are shut so I can't get anything done Evil or Very Mad bloody zombie. Why does that mean there is no post?! I need to post things, damnit! Anyways ...

Keep up the good work Very Happy I'd love to hear some of this one even if it does sound different Smile How much did that cost to build too?

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tjookum



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

You're on a roll phobos, excellent work! again!

Yingler all the way is the most interesting set of lunetta sounds I've heard in a long time. Really reminds me of some of the experiments I did with chaining lots of XOR gates.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

Unfortunately I can't get the damn thing to work again, well it for a bit, but its so unstable I can't make it work. I'm glad someone got a good circuit out of this idea though Wink
The circuit oscillated better when I disconnected the potentiometer (refering to my initial diagram). Rolling Eyes
I've come up with some new things I want to try which might acctually work when you try to do them again, so this circuit can wait.

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PHOBoS



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote  Mark this post and the followings unread

thanks tjookum, I did recently hear some of your sounds on the stream which reminded me of the jingler Laughing

I wanted to reply sooner but got distracted by a new VCO design
I did get it to jingle again,. allthough not sompletely the same as breadboarded.
my first idea was to make a varying supply voltage for the 4051 chip so I wired up
a semi random generator used to turn a transistor on/off which switched the supply voltage.
I also added a cap and some extra biasing resistors so it would produce a smooth voltage.
It kinda worked and I thought instead of the random generator it might also be fun to use
a combination of the modulators. So I detached the random generator and to my
surprise it still kept "jingling". So I soldered just the transistor resistors and cap onto
the jingler PCB (there was a bit of of room left), turned it on and,... Crying or Very sad

After that I had to do a lot of experimenting to find out why it didn´t work and
eventually ended up with adding an extra wire to the DC input just to power the chip scratch

I did record some sounds but it´s ± 100min right now so I might have to edit it a bit,
however I just posted something else which includes some jingler sounds too, here.

as for the total cost of the finished jingler, the parts you see are the most expensive bits and I used reverse log pots
for the modulators which are €2,30 a piece. a bit pricey (the other pots are €0,50) but reverse log just works so
much nicer with these kind of oscillators. You could just use a normal log. too off course and wire it so the oscillator
goes faster when you turn it CCW. All together I think pots, knobs, switches, connectors, LED covers would
come to a total of ± €25,- and probably ± €10,- for the rest.

(got some ideas for the any gate too btw,. but nothing out of the ordinary and got a shitload of other stuff to finish first Wink )

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