G2 Engine upgrade / mod to G2

sellblue · Posted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:01 pm Post subject: G2 Engine upgrade / mod to G2

Hello,

It is possible to hack the NM G2 Engine using the G2 or G2x front panel, ie pluging the front panel of G2 onto the motherboard of the engine and use it as a controller?
It seems to me that the G2 / G2x / G2 Engine all use the same motherboard.

G2 / G2X:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

G2 Engine:
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

3phase · Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:55 am Post subject:

probably..

but seens the engine is even more rare than the keyboard version.
seems the g2 will be an expensive classic..
still an unbeatable package with the 8 variation buttons.

Electromagnetic Wave · Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:51 pm Post subject:

Hey,

sellblue · Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2022 12:29 pm Post subject:

Soon I will get a G2 keyboard version. I also have an Engine so will be able to plug the front panel to the Engine's main board.

According to the service manual it is possible to plug the front panel (panel board) Engine's main board. However it is only for diagnostic purposes and G2 Engine won't work as the keyboard version.
I think there is a trick to enable the keyboard version when the front panel is connected. Maybe it is resistor coded as the G2X features (see more in the service manual). I plan to do comparison on G2/G2 Engine main boards.

I have attached the service manual.

nord modular G2 service manual v1.2.pdf

Description:

Download (listen)

Filename:

nord modular G2 service manual v1.2.pdf

Filesize:

1.35 MB

Downloaded:

1855 Time(s)

sellblue

Please vote if you would buy a controller with the same functionality as the G2 keyboard control panel.
It is possible according my research. I could implement such a controller based on the number of votes.

2022-02-27_15h08_24.png

Description:

Filesize:

147.78 KB

Viewed:

189 Time(s)

This image has been reduced to fit the page. Click on it to enlarge.

Electromagnetic Wave · Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2022 9:56 pm Post subject:

Thanks for sharing the service manual here! I think these 2 resistors are related to the extra controllers on the G2X. I did not follow the traces on the pcb but they must be connected. On the other hand, I doubt that the OS makes the difference between G2 keyboard and a G2 engine in the same way, with a resistor. But I'm not saying it's impossible to spoof / emulate G2 keyboard components and cheat the G2 engine OS. But it requires a little material, time .. and who wants to risk damaging his G2! But if you have other leads I can participate in the project (the one you are talking about at the start) and do some tests if I don't think it's too risky. I had in my possession a G2X, a G2 keyboard and a G2 engine. I changed some parts on some of them.

sellblue · Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 12:36 pm Post subject:

Electromagnetic Wave · Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:49 pm Post subject:

sellblue · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 5:54 am Post subject:

brunov · Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 11:23 pm Post subject:

Hi,

I don't think I received any messages, but I like to help you with your project.

Everything that is known about the file structure and usb protocol is in the code. I can point you to the relevant parts of the things that your are interested in.

Bruno.

sellblue · Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:40 am Post subject:

brunov · Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 6:35 am Post subject:

A knob on the parameter page refers to a parameter.

To change the value of a parameter through USB you have to send the following message:

(In file g2_mess.pas, line 3657)

function TG2MessSlot.CreateSetParamMessage( aLocation, aModule, aParam, aValue, aVariation: byte): TG2SendMessage;
begin
Result := TG2SendMessage.Create;
Result.WriteMessage( $01);
Result.WriteMessage( CMD_NO_RESP + CMD_SLOT + SlotIndex );
Result.WriteMessage( FPatchVersion);
Result.WriteMessage( S_SET_PARAM);
Result.WriteMessage( aLocation);
Result.WriteMessage( aModule);
Result.WriteMessage( aParam);
Result.WriteMessage( aValue);
Result.WriteMessage( aVariation);
end;

CMD_NO_RESP (Hex30) means it is a message that does not initiates a response

CMD_SLOT (Hex08) + SlotIndex refers to the slot the patch is in.

FPatchVersion is a number that increases every time a structural change is made in a patch.

S_SET_PARAM (Hex40)

aLocation refers to the VA or FX section.
aModule is the Module id in the location
aParam is the id of the Param in the module
aValue is the new value for the parameter
aValraition is the variation

The in-memory data structure of the G2 is more or less the same as the file structure. The file structure consists of "chunks". So there one or more "module" chunks, one or more "cable" chunks, "module name" chunks, "parameter" chunks, "parameter name" chunks, "knob" chunks, "cc assignment" chunks and so on.

A single "Knob" in a "knobs" chunk has this structure

(g2_file.pas, line 566)

TKnob = class
private
FAssigned : TBits1;
FLocation : TBits2;
FModuleIndex : TBits8;
FIsLed : TBits2;
FParamIndex : TBits7;
...

With USB you can upload/download complete chunks but you can also send/receive all kinds of messages, one of which is setting a parameter value.

with MIDI (SysEx), as far as I know, you can only request a complete patch or performance and send a (changed) complete patch or performance.

brunov · Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:36 pm Post subject:

I'll explain a bit more on how the usb connection is set up:

The os editor uses the libusb library.

You can interface with the library using this header file.

In unit G2_USB.pas there are the functions for:

Setting up the connection:

function TG2USB.Init : boolean;

Closing the connection:

procedure TG2USB.Done;

Reading an interrupt (small) message:

function TG2USB.iread(addr: byte; var buffer; size, timeout: longword): integer;

Reading a bulk message:

function TG2USB.bread(addr: byte; var buffer; size, timeout: longword): integer;

Writing a bulk message:

function TG2USB.bwrite(addr: byte; var buffer; size, timeout: longword): integer;

For reading messages from the g2 a listening thread is set up:

procedure TReceiveMessageThread.Execute;

This thread blocks waiting for an incomming interrupt message. Possibly this is then followed by a bulk message.

For sending messages a thread is used also, but this may not be necessary.

sellblue · Posted: Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:44 pm Post subject:

mosc · Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:12 pm Post subject:

Electromagnetic Wave · Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2022 3:55 pm Post subject:

Awesome! Thanks for this additional info in gold brunov.

I asked you a question in "NMG2 Open Source Editor" topic. Do you have an idea how to collect controllers names (with OSC or whatever) from the parameter pages box on the G2? I want to mimic G2 display and pots with a Novation SL mk2. I know how to send/change knob names in real time with sysex for the Novation SL mk2. if I understand how to sniff parameter names in real time, I should be able to code a small tool that will do the conversion to sysex and send it to the Novation screen. I thought it might be easier from your editor to send the name of the parameters to an external tool than with the official editor

The Novation has 8 infinite knobs and 8 aligned buttons, then a screen at the top of each knob like the G2.

Cheers!

brunov · Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2022 4:15 am Post subject:

Probably the simplest way is to initiate a patch/perf sysex dump from the g2 over midi and extract the knob assignments and parameter names from this data.

The complicated way would be to create a program that gets the data over the usb interface, as explained in the above posts.

There is also maybe a third way, that is you can connect to NMG2 OS editor using TCP/IP. The editor must be opened and connected to the G2 of course, but then you can get (or send) G2 messages over TCP/IP to the editor. These are the same messages you would use over the USB interface.

The TCP/IP port and host are on the "Application settings" dialog, tab TCP/IP.

This can be a bit complicated too of course, depends on your programming sklils. What programming language do you use?

Electromagnetic Wave · Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2022 2:18 pm Post subject:

Your first option is brilliant and simple. But I don't have a clear idea how I can only display the parameters of the current 'parameter page' on the 8 knobs of the Novation SL mkii. I assigned control changes on Novation SL mkii buttons to change the parameter pages (1,2,3,A,B,C,D,E) of the G2 with NMG2 OS editor. I imagine that a solution to make the bridge in real time would be to send the value of the ccs assigned to the 'parameter pages' to the tool to be programmed. After the value for the letter and number of a 'parameter page' (A,B,C,1,2,3,4,5) are sent the tool will update the name of the 8 knobs on the Novation SL mkii by sending the name of the parameters converted into sysex messages.

brunov · Posted: Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:03 am Post subject:

Yes I think it is possible to send midi messages in response to label changes on the parameter pages. Only I don't think it is a good idea to build in code in the editor for a specific type of controller, this should be something that is generic.

I mean, you should be able to create some kind of config file in which you can define how to convert de label data into a SysEx message that is specific for your controller.

But, let's see wat sellblue ideas are on this.

[/img]