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seraph
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 Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 4:54 pm Post subject:
The Center for Cognitive Liberty & Ethics |
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The Center for Cognitive Liberty & Ethics (CCLE) is a nonprofit research and policy center working to advance just and sustainable social policies that protect freedom of thought.
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/topnews.html
what about this one?
| Quote: | Mentally ill Inmate Put to Death
after Medical “Treatment” Prepares Execution
Death row inmate Charles Singleton, 44, died by lethal injection at the Cummins Unit Prison near Varner, Arkansas on Tuesday, January 6, but not before prison medical staff injected him with a mind-altering drug intended to improve his understanding of the process. Read more |
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| Quote: | | Don't die with your music still in you - Wayne Dyer |
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elektro80
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 6:25 pm Post subject:
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I did read more. Shit! Anyway, ... thx for posting this one. But I feel sick right now.
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Cyxeris
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
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Location: Louisville, KY
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:21 pm Post subject:
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I would construe that as cruel and unusual punishment. If anything, they should be reasoning that IF thay are determined to execute him, it should be in the same state of mind that he was in when commiting the homocide. They dont give "normal" people drugs to enhance the experience of execution. And they methodically prevented his family members from witnessing the event. You know, think about something here...
When you think "gas chambers," what comes to mind? What events in history? Whst sorts of societies and governments? Now make a list of nations who openly have them, from greatest to least. Hmmm. I hate when USSR/Nazi/Modern America comparisons come too close and seem to make all too much sense. Is it just me? Does it make me "Unamerican" to point things like this out? Disillusionment snowballs flying through the winter air.
Cyx
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mosc
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:29 pm Post subject:
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| Cyxeris wrote: | | ... comparisons come too close and seem to make all too much sense. Is it just me? Does it make me "Unamerican" to point things like this out? |
That is the argument isn't it. Makes you wonder about that 23 year old National Gardsman they just busted on the west coast. What was he doing? Chatting on the internet.
Maybe we should make a copy of electro-music.com to go with the Waldorf site.  |
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Cyxeris
Joined: Oct 30, 2003
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Location: Louisville, KY
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| Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2004 8:34 pm Post subject:
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I just think that Bush/Hitler comparistons are all too common and, for the most part, vastly unfounded. It's cheap and lazy to envoke Hitler to make a point, and when unfounded, utterly offensive. That is why I tread very lightly when choosing when to use such an example, and I appologize if I offend anyone in doing so, but I think it is necessary when the reality at hand warrants it.
And I really really do hope I am wrong. I pray that my comparisons are incorrect.
Cyx
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elektro80
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 5:51 am Post subject:
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OK, perhaps the Hitler is used too much in this context.. one might as well use other comparisons. On the other hand, all the things that were wrong with Hitler and the nazi regime are not specific to Germany or that specific era. Bad shit like that has happened and will happen all over the globe. And some of this shit happens not only because leaders and henchmen are evil, but also because our culture allows sick ideologies and ideas to be assimilated in a way that diffuses morality. How the hell could Germany go so wrong? The answer is that is way too easy. There is almost no distance to travel.. from the nice cosy comforts of a well adjusted society into utmost savagery. My thread about the "invention of future crimes" was my take on ideas and ideologies which I deem to be scary indeed.
OK, so the US citizens can ignore the prisoners at Guantamo Bay.. because this is just a matter of the state keeping the homeland secure.
What the hell is that about? If we look a the history of mankind for the last 100 years, this way of handling enemies of the state does not seem all too familiar? Huh?
It is all too easy to go wrong.
My article about Dresden - 13th February 1945
might be of interest.
The bombing of Dresden has recently been used for nazi propaganda purposes. If you guys check around on the net, you will find that most websites are quoting the wrong number of dead. Quite probably 25-30 000 people, like us.. completely ordinary civilians, were killed. It might be a few less or a few more. We cannot really tell. As if this number is not bad enough, a certain british "historian" has made himself the authority on this event and he has been manipulating the numbers. There are even websites claiming that his "latest" estimate of 630. 000 is correct. Yes, Dresden was full of refurgees escaping from the east, butthis number is silly. So.. who died there according to the british "historian"? Jews! he actually set up an argument which reads as a solidly founded proposition that this event explains a big number of missing jews. He is now discredited, but the false information is still out there. I have checked, and it seems that a lot of educators are unknowingly using his falsiefied information. This of course has nothing to do with the tragic events in Dresden. This is something else.
As to the wrong numbers, if you guys check the net or books, you will find these numbers: A) 15 000 - 30 000, B) 45 000, C) 65 000, D) 120-135 000, F) 250 000, G) 630 000. A is the correct and the most probably number is perhaps 21.000 - 23.000 .
The bombing of Dresden is a good example of what bombing civilians is about. The germans did their share of this. The US took out Tokyo, Nagasaki and Hiroshima. This is how war is. This does not in any way say that germans or americans are evil. But this does show the nature and the consequences of war. I imagine there are lessons to be learned here.
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Cyxeris
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 6:05 am Post subject:
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Big time.
Cyx
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elektro80
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 6:10 am Post subject:
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Kool! Any suggestions?
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Cyxeris
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 6:19 am Post subject:
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Give me some time to consider. 
Cyx
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elektro80
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:12 am Post subject:
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| Quote: | Buchanan Broke Bush/Nazi Story into Mass Media
Last September, Buchanan became the first journalist in U.S. history
to see newly declassified government documents, at the U.S. National
Archives and Library of Congress, that prove the 27-year history of
collaboration with the WW II German Nazis by Prescott Bush, the
grandfather of George W. Bush, and by George Herbert Walker, his
maternal great-grandfather. In October and November, Buchanan
published a series of articles on this topic in The New Hampshire
Gazette, founded in 1756 and the oldest newspaper in America. Those
articles can be read online at:
http://www.nhgazette.com
In mid-October, the Associated Press (AP) ran a story worldwide that
credited Buchanan with his scoop.
Police Harassment Started Shortly Thereafter
On October 19, Miami Beach Police knocked on the reporter's apartment
door and questioned him based on an alleged "tip" that he was
plotting to kill the President. The next day, Miami Beach detectives
appeared at Buchanan s door, this time on a complaint from The Miami
Herald that Buchanan might be a terror suspect plotting to blow up
the headquarters of Knight-Ridder newspapers. Despite a phone
complaint by Buchanan to the Washington and Miami offices of the FBI,
no action has been taken to look into his allegations.
Miami Beach Police have apparently made no attempt to investigate the
sources of the false police complaints, nor has Mayor David Dermer
offered any help, according to Buchanan.
"He has known me and my work for six years," says Buchanan. "Ever
since this drama began when I found the Bush-Nazi documents, Mayor
Dermer has been inexplicably silent. He has shown no courage, and is
therefore, in my opinion, unfit for office." Buchanan is now calling
for Mayor Dermer s resignation or removal from office by the Florida
Attorney General.
Buchanan also claims that during the time he was campaigning for
President in New Hampshire last month, the state chair of the New
Hampshire Republican Party, Jayne Millerick, "filed a false police
report against him for harassment". Buchanan claims that
eyewitnesses -- including a Buffalo, NY newspaper reporter, a van
driver, and two members of his campaign team -- saw her instruct two
individuals to eject him from her Concord office. Buchanan also
alleges that Concord Police and the FBI refused to investigate the
matter.
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I checked out the http://www.nhgazette.com
What is that place? I am not quite sure how to read that site.
When it comes to the Bush/nazi connection... Who did NOT collaborate with the nazis? ( Trivia: A part of the compexities behind what led to the japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a trade war which the US was an active part of. )
The first test of the willingness of the modern "free world" to do the right thing came when the legal Spanish government was attacked. The spanish civil war pretty much showed the true nature of big business and how decent the governments of democratic countries really were.
I guess we are forgetting that many saw Hitler as a hero, not a villain. He was a strong leader who provided his people with sensible and healthy ideas.
Many US politicians and business leaders felt it was a huge mistake to declare war on germany. And now a guy finds evidence of ... well.. read the article at : http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=NN_Bush_Nazi_2
..... not a surprise.. a lot of this .. and a lot more has been known in Europe about this ever since the war.
As historical records, this information is of course interesting. But that another thing altogether.
The article continues and this section is interesting:
| Quote: | What Does It All Mean?
So why are the documents relevant today?
"The story of Prescott Bush and Brown Brothers Harriman is an introduction to the real history of our country," says L.A. art book publisher and historian Edward Boswell. "It exposes the money-making motives behind our foreign policies, dating back a full century. The ability of Prescott Bush and the Harrimans to bury their checkered pasts also reveals a collusion between Wall Street and the media that exists to this day."
Sheldon Drobny, a Chicago entrepreneur and philanthropist who will soon launch a liberal talk radio network, says the importance of the new documents is that they prove a long pattern of Bush family war profiteering that continues today via George H.W. Bush's intimate relationship with the Saudi royal family and the bin Ladens, conducted via the super-secret Carlyle Group, whose senior advisers include former U.S. Secretary of State James A. Baker III.
In the post-9/11 world, Drobny finds the Bush-Saudi connection deeply troubling. "Trading with the enemy is trading with the enemy," he says. "That's the relevance of the documents and what they show."
Lawrence Lader, an abortion rights activist and the author of more than 40 books, says "the relevance lies with the fact that the sitting President of the United States would lead the nation to war based on lies and against the wishes of the rest of the world." Lader and others draw comparisons between President Bush's invasion of Iraq and Hitler's occupation of Poland in 1939 - the event that sparked World War Two.
However, others see an even larger significance.
"The discovery of the Bush-Nazi documents raises new questions about the role of Prescott Bush and his influential business partners in the secret emigration of Nazi war criminals, which allowed them to escape justice in Germany," says Bob Fertik, co-founder of Democrats.com and an amateur 'Nazi hunter.' "It also raises questions about the importance of Nazi recruits to the CIA in its early years, in what was called Operation Paperclip, and Prescott Bush's role in that dark operation."
Fertik and others, including former Justice Department Nazi war crimes prosecutor John Loftus, a Constitutional attorney in Miami, and a former Veterans Administration official, believe Prescott Bush and the Harrimans should have been tried for treason.
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mosc
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| Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:02 am Post subject:
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| elektro80 wrote: | | Who did NOT collaborate with the nazis? |
That's a great point.
In every human being there is a Nazi.
In every human being there is a Terrorist.
In every human being there is a Saint.
It's time we stop saying, "How could they have done that (evil act)".
We should start saying, "How could we have done that?".
When I first saw the WTC disaster on TV, I thought, "How could we do something so heartless and insensitive?"
When will we ever learn... |
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