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Jackout

Joined: Oct 27, 2005 Posts: 92 Location: Leeds
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 1:47 am Post subject:
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I was left feeling a little deflated after seeing the new Clavia product is a farfisa organ - I was hoping for an update on the G2, possibly with sample memory and a few other bells and whistes. Ho Hum Depends what your needs are I suppose, but I can't see myself shelling out for something like this. The new Waldorf line looks quite tasty though. |
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Wout Blommers

Joined: Sep 07, 2003 Posts: 4529 Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:18 am Post subject:
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| Jackout wrote: | I was left feeling a little deflated after seeing the new Clavia product is a farfisa organ - I was hoping for an update on the G2, possibly with sample memory and a few other bells and whistes. Ho Hum Depends what your needs are I suppose, but I can't see myself shelling out for something like this. The new Waldorf line looks quite tasty though. |
The answer is frankly quite simple...
Clavia is in retro! Just using the todays technical possibilities to make the old moguls from the past.
dDrum speaks for itself, the NordLead is a emulation of the Prophet V, the Nord Modular Classic is based on any modular synth, although the Moog system is the most important, Electro and Stage don't need any explanations. Only the G2 is a little bit different regarding the Switch and Midi possibilities.
The C3 fits wonderful in this policy. Just making history more perfect. And music didn't change that much, over all those years
On other forums, mainly for real keyboard players, people react very enthusiastically.
Wout |
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Fozzie

Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 875 Location: Near Wageningen, the Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:50 am Post subject:
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| Wout Blommers wrote: | On other forums, mainly for real keyboard players, people react very enthusiastically.
Wout |
Well, I've seen less than enthusiastic reactions on several keys/synth forums. The main complaint seems to be the lack of real drawbars there, or just the lack of novelty-factor.
But I agree, it fits well in their product portfolio and hopefully becomes successful.
Has anybody been to the first day at NAMM here? Any news from the Clavia booth? _________________ Spinning at ~0.0000115740740741 Hz |
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Kassen
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:58 am Post subject:
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Re; "clavia is retro"
Combining modular sound generators with treatments of pre-recorded material predates controling them with keyboards by a LONG time, I'd say that's far more "retro".
Compared to the idea of recording, manipulation and playback of arbitrary sounds something like the Lead series is very, very modern indeed. The leads are multi-oscilator *polyphonic* keyboard based synths. Compared to sampling and controling tone-generators with just kobs/sliders/anything-but-a-keyboard the concept underneath the Leads is about as "retro" as flying cars. Even using a programing language for musical expression is older then standardised CV.
There are very good reasons not to use sampling in the G2 but the "retro" argument doesn't realy have anything to do with it. _________________ Kassen |
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Fozzie

Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 875 Location: Near Wageningen, the Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:40 am Post subject:
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| Kassen wrote: | Re; "clavia is retro"
Combining modular sound generators with treatments of pre-recorded material predates controling them with keyboards by a LONG time, I'd say that's far more "retro".
Compared to the idea of recording, manipulation and playback of arbitrary sounds something like the Lead series is very, very modern indeed. The leads are multi-oscilator *polyphonic* keyboard based synths. Compared to sampling and controling tone-generators with just kobs/sliders/anything-but-a-keyboard the concept underneath the Leads is about as "retro" as flying cars. Even using a programing language for musical expression is older then standardised CV. |
Retro doesn't necessarily mean that it is similar to the oldest known form. If a couch looks like a typical seventies couch, it is called 'retro', even though couches existed long before the seventies. The (late) seventies were also full of keyboard-synths I believe.
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There are very good reasons not to use sampling in the G2 but the "retro" argument doesn't realy have anything to do with it. | Nooo, not the sampling again. We weren't discussing that, were we? _________________ Spinning at ~0.0000115740740741 Hz |
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:57 am Post subject:
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I was replying to Wout who was in turn adressing a post that was -partially- about sampling.
I wasn't talking about refering to the oldest known form of something, What I meant to say is that much the Modular and Lead series is actually emulating things that are very modern.
In a way you could say that the act of Moog putting a keyboard on a modular was also very "retro" because he was dealing with a newer instrument in a way that came from much older instruments like the piano; sure. My point was that it's not at all clear to me how Clavia's choices are more "retro" then some of the requested features. I didn't mean to say they should now do other things. _________________ Kassen |
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Wout Blommers

Joined: Sep 07, 2003 Posts: 4529 Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:09 am Post subject:
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| Kassen wrote: | | ... Compared to sampling and controling tone-generators with just kobs/sliders/anything-but-a-keyboard the concept underneath the Leads is about as "retro" as flying cars. ... |
Flying cars are not retro nor future: they are just very impractical Do you believe nobody knows how to build one? That the flying car is still waiting to be invented?
Retro refers to how one uses the object. Transposed to the synthesizer, most musicians wants to hear the sounds which are very famous. Can it sounds like...? In that respect Clavia is in retro.
Wout |
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Wout Blommers

Joined: Sep 07, 2003 Posts: 4529 Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:14 am Post subject:
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| Kassen wrote: | | I was replying to Wout who was in turn adressing a post that was -partially- about sampling features. ... |
In a way we agree, Kassen...
Still I hope Clavia will one day uses its knowledge to create something new (non existing yet)!
Wout |
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:24 am Post subject:
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| Wout Blommers wrote: |
Retro refers to how one uses the object. Transposed to the synthesizer, most musicians wants to hear the sounds which are very famous. Can it sounds like...? In that respect Clavia is in retro.
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I'm note so sure retro refers to just how one uses it. I think you can have a very modern thing that gets used in a very modern way and still give a strong impresion of it being "retro", for example by the usage of visual design elements.
Anyway, there are also many famous and immediately recognisable sounds that are based on sampling. I don't think you can say "no sampling because it's not retro" or "no sampling because it's not famous". Sampled orchestral stabs in disco and some forms of rock come to mind; very famous, instantly recognisable, extremely "retro" and not at all "clavia".
I think it's more like Clavia likes some things and dislikes other things on purely arbitrary grounds, just like we all do and that's fine. I just don't think you can pretend it's based on some sort of objective foundation. _________________ Kassen |
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Kassen
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Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:35 am Post subject:
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| Wout Blommers wrote: |
In a way we agree, Kassen...
Still I hope Clavia will one day uses its knowledge to create something new (non existing yet)!
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We do? Blah, I was hoping for a good debate! :-p
What I'm hoping for is new ways of dealing with old techniques. One of the things Clavia is clearly "retro" in is interface. Sadly the "famous" interfaces turn out to be good for only a certain set of things and not so good for others.
I predict that the research for what will be exciting in electronic music in the next five years in being done right now in video-game controlers on consoles. Very few new ideas in electronic music come from electronic music itself, we borowed most so far from the telecom business (as you know) and I think that the hole being left at the moment is being filled by the video game field where direct and freeform interaction is a must and where tradition works in a different way. But yeah; it would be nice for Clavia to be one of the first to merge those sucessfully. _________________ Kassen |
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Fozzie

Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 875 Location: Near Wageningen, the Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 5:51 am Post subject:
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| Kassen wrote: | | What I'm hoping for is new ways of dealing with old techniques. One of the things Clavia is clearly "retro" in is interface. Sadly the "famous" interfaces turn out to be good for only a certain set of things and not so good for others. |
But methinks the G2 interface (yes, I finally got my keys a few days ago, so I'm biased in a pleasant way) is retro in a very modern way, so to say. The knobs & buttons concept above a keyboard with some additional controllers is not new, but the whole display / led ring / matrix knobbies is very modern and quite inventive, although not revolutionary. _________________ Spinning at ~0.0000115740740741 Hz |
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Wout Blommers

Joined: Sep 07, 2003 Posts: 4529 Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:02 am Post subject:
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| Kassen wrote: | | I predict that the research for what will be exciting in electronic music in the next five years in being done right now in video-game controlers on consoles. Very few new ideas in electronic music come from electronic music itself, we borowed most so far from the telecom business (as you know) and I think that the hole being left at the moment is being filled by the video game field where direct and freeform interaction is a must and where tradition works in a different way. But yeah; it would be nice for Clavia to be one of the first to merge those sucessfully. |
I agree again, Kassen!
We have to teach the constructers, I guess.
Maybe something to do in Frandeux?
Wout |
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Wout Blommers

Joined: Sep 07, 2003 Posts: 4529 Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:06 am Post subject:
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| Fozzie wrote: | | The knobs & buttons concept above a keyboard with some additional controllers is not new, but the whole display / led ring / matrix knobbies is very modern and quite inventive, although not revolutionary. |
I think the Switch and the Midi parts are really revolutionairy. I don't know about a synth who has it all...
Wout |
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dorremifasol

Joined: Sep 28, 2006 Posts: 823 Location: Barcelona, Spain
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:09 am Post subject:
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I find the G2 interface to be pretty good, I really like it. Recently I have bought a second hand Virus C and I must say that I have no use for it, the my G2 is still the king in my room (now selling the Virus ). Turn on and play, tweak, whatever, and it sounds very neutral which is good IMHO. I think that the only way of making it better is to provide better screens (or screen), probably with graphic capabilities and perhaps some more controls.
About clavia doing something new and original, I think that the G2 was pretty new and original, and it still is, even with the shadow of Origin coming from Arturia. _________________ Cheers,
Albert |
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Fozzie

Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 875 Location: Near Wageningen, the Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:14 am Post subject:
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| Wout Blommers wrote: |
I think the Switch and the Midi parts are really revolutionairy. I don't know about a synth who has it all...
Wout |
Well, I reacted to Kassens remark about the interface, which was probably aimed at the G2 being *another* key-based synth, which I believe is not his idea of a party.
But I agree with you, Wout, that the G2 is probably the only HW synth with such an array of midi processing modules & power. As a midi controller, yes, you can call it revolutionary. Only software solutions can do similar things to my knowledge, but not as fast & intuitive as with the G2 editor/interface. _________________ Spinning at ~0.0000115740740741 Hz |
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Wout Blommers

Joined: Sep 07, 2003 Posts: 4529 Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:17 am Post subject:
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Something else, something strange.
All the internet talks about that Clavia combo organ C3, but it appears to be called C1!!!!
I'm sure it was introduced as C3...
Am I dreaming?
Wout |
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Fozzie

Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 875 Location: Near Wageningen, the Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:31 am Post subject:
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| Wout Blommers wrote: | Something else, something strange.
All the internet talks about that Clavia combo organ C3, but it appears to be called C1!!!!
I'm sure it was introduced as C3...
Am I dreaming?
Wout |
Nope, no dreaming. A bit of a mixup by Clavia I guess
Namm picture:
Clavia site picture:
BTW, a few minutes ago it was listed in the product section as C1, but that has changed now to C3
inside Clavia site product page pic:
Text still mentions C1 though
Edit: the pic changes again ; the lowest picture showed C3 in large letters for a few moments, but not any more  _________________ Spinning at ~0.0000115740740741 Hz |
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dorremifasol

Joined: Sep 28, 2006 Posts: 823 Location: Barcelona, Spain
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Fozzie

Joined: Jun 04, 2004 Posts: 875 Location: Near Wageningen, the Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:44 am Post subject:
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Yes, they are changing it as we speak. Too bad I hotlinked the pictures, now I can't find the C3 picture anymore from the product page, but it was there moments ago (or maybe in my browser cache?)... _________________ Spinning at ~0.0000115740740741 Hz |
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Wout Blommers

Joined: Sep 07, 2003 Posts: 4529 Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
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NoiseLab

Joined: Mar 02, 2005 Posts: 68 Location: Zandvoort, the Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 2:44 pm Post subject:
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| Wout Blommers wrote: | | Retro refers to how one uses the object. Transposed to the synthesizer, most musicians wants to hear the sounds which are very famous. Can it sounds like...? In that respect Clavia is in retro. |
So retro is just an recourse to sentiment or nostalgia!
By this Clavia is not looking forward and outward with a cleareyed vision. With the fact they either avoid or simply incapable to do that!!!
-Armand |
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Wout Blommers

Joined: Sep 07, 2003 Posts: 4529 Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject:
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| NoiseLab wrote: | | By this Clavia is not looking forward and outward with a cleareyed vision. With the fact they either avoid or simply incapable to do that!!! |
It's not that simple...
I see the building of musical instruments in a three leg perspective: the instrument builder, the musician and the music made by using the instrument (& the audience).
If an instrument builder makes an instrument to difficult to handle by the musician, he will sell nothing and starve to death
If the instrument isn't capable of producing the music the audience wants to hear, both builder and musician will be lost...
A new instrument can't be that different from its predecessors.
What has Clavia done until now? Apart of the dDrum, which is retro for sure they created the NordLead, an emulation of the prophet V, only lighter, more compact, a little bit more features, better memory and maybe a better sound... When it was sold well, they developed it more to the NordLead3, as synth which never existed before and much more features compared with the NordLead.
The same happened to the Electro and the Stage, the later having possibilities no emulation instrument had before.
The Nord Modular Classic/Micro and the Nord Modular G2 are a slightly different story, but they can be seen in the same light.
So I wonder what the Combi Organ C2 will be like... |
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dasz

Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1644 Location: victoria, canada
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:38 pm Post subject:
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http://clavia.com/main.asp
looks like C3 is being played at namm in the video from the clavia main page and now it looks like it is a C1. All this fuss over a 2 octaves down
Wonder what happened to all the mp3 demos and nord user pages?
/Dasz |
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dorremifasol

Joined: Sep 28, 2006 Posts: 823 Location: Barcelona, Spain
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:08 am Post subject:
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The keyboard just rear the player (right side) seems to be a 3 octaves G2, at least it is is no the show! _________________ Cheers,
Albert |
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Wout Blommers

Joined: Sep 07, 2003 Posts: 4529 Location: The Hague - The Netherlands
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2007 12:09 am Post subject:
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| dasz wrote: | | Wonder what happened to all the mp3 demos and nord user pages? |
Although not on the new site, http://www.clavia.se/MP3s/index.htm#G2
Wout |
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