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Stanley Pain

Joined: Sep 02, 2004 Posts: 782 Location: Reading, UK
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 35
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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject:
who do you turn to first to play your work? |
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at any stage of it's development... _________________ there's no I in TEAM, so let's all act as individuals instead |
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Acoustic Interloper

Joined: Jul 07, 2007 Posts: 2074 Location: Berks County, PA
Audio files: 89
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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject:
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My wife. I am not always necessarily looking for a positive reaction -- she hates dissonance -- so sometimes the negative reaction is a confirmation. She is pretty objective in her criticism, and not always in agreement with me, which of course makes me feel *really* good when she says, "I really like that piece." _________________ When the stream is deep
my wild little dog frolics,
when shallow, she drinks. |
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Kassen
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3
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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject:
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The first person to comment without being asked to. _________________ Kassen |
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Stanley Pain

Joined: Sep 02, 2004 Posts: 782 Location: Reading, UK
Audio files: 10
G2 patch files: 35
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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 10:27 am Post subject:
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Kassen wrote: | The first person to comment without being asked to. |
do you find many musicians who are willing to comment without being asked? remind me, you're dutch aren't you? i've been told by a couple of UK producers that when i play Holland i should be prepared to take some very detailed criticism after i've played, albeit well meaning!
in London, depending on where you play, you can feel under scrutiny, but most of London and the rest of the UK are just kind of up for a party and besides, we're english, we're reserved and it's not terribly polite to criticise someone's work! therefore, most people tend not to offer criticism without being asked.
i actually can't wait to play in Holland, not for the gigs (sorry... you sound like a terrible crowd!!!) but to meet all these Dutch circuit benders, synth collectors and equipment fetishists that i keep hearing about... _________________ there's no I in TEAM, so let's all act as individuals instead |
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jkn

Joined: Mar 14, 2004 Posts: 469 Location: La Porte, IN, USA
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Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject:
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My wife tends to hear my stuff first long before anyone else. I have a very small circle of friends that I post in progress work to for feedback. |
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moue
Joined: Mar 06, 2008 Posts: 3 Location: london, ontario
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Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:57 pm Post subject:
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I generally play my new tracks for close friends. What i find and what bothers me most is that i generally get no reaction whatsoever from them. Nothing spontaneous anyway. Noone has ever turned to me in the middle of a track and said, 'hey, this is really good.' It's always at the end of the track and i turn to them and ask, and they then tell me that they like it, or whatever their opinion is.
Has anybody else run into this? I find it really strange, because i will always tell someone if i really like something, even if i don't know them.
maybe they just don't like it... but i'd rather someone tell me that they don't like my music than to get no reaction at all.
thoughts? |
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Kassen
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3
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Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:41 am Post subject:
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Stanley Pain wrote: |
do you find many musicians who are willing to comment without being asked? |
I'm not sure I always find musicians have the most interesting opinions. Especially electronic musicians tend to react to technical aspects and I'm really more interested in how a piece comes across emotionally. What you can always do is put something on without commenting. I mean; musicians that gather play music anyway so you just put it in a playlist and see if anybody comments. If nobody does you can at least conclude it's not bad compared to other (likely mastered) pieces but when they do you know there's no aspect of "being nice". I find this works quite well and leads to interesting comments.
Another interesting note; sometimes I'll be making some sounds with my GF around so she'll be hearing a lot of sounds. When she comments without being asked that one of them stands out as being particularly funky or nice I know that's one sound to keep.
Quote: | remind me, you're dutch aren't you? |
Yeah. The Hague. Creme-Bunker... that corner of the world.
Quote: | i've been told by a couple of UK producers that when i play Holland i should be prepared to take some very detailed criticism after i've played, albeit well meaning!
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Yeah, you are right, now that I think of it.
Quote: | in London, depending on where you play, you can feel under scrutiny, but most of London and the rest of the UK are just kind of up for a party and besides, we're english, we're reserved and it's not terribly polite to criticise someone's work! therefore, most people tend not to offer criticism without being asked.
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To be honest I was never much into the London party scene. I did meet some very good club engineers there though that did have some more interesting comments on the way pieces interacted with the local acoustics and so on.
Quote: | i actually can't wait to play in Holland, not for the gigs (sorry... you sound like a terrible crowd!!!) but to meet all these Dutch circuit benders, synth collectors and equipment fetishists that i keep hearing about... |
Depends. Amsterdam is often sucky as far as the big commercial clubs are concerned (which is likely where you would end up, there are some semi-squatted places that are better and less jaded, fashionable and bored) but The Hague and Rotterdam can be very good, especially Rotterdam... Utrecht is often fun as well. Beware of student parties, students are only into beer and other students.
Drop me a line if you do come over, I'd like to see you live since we've run into eachother online so many times. It'll be good to see what you do with this band and without the "pro recording polish" ;¬). I can pay special attention to aspects if you tell me in advance, then give you my best stab and honest feedback..... if you'd like? _________________ Kassen |
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Kassen
Janitor


Joined: Jul 06, 2004 Posts: 7678 Location: The Hague, NL
G2 patch files: 3
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Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 8:01 am Post subject:
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I like your music on myspace. It's very "musical", you made the voice fit well and you have very good taste in detailing. It's better then those 222 page-hits would indicate. You wouldn't get laughed at if you send demos to relevant labels, It's not my style but it's good and there should be a audience for this. Your quality levels in those 4 tracks are quite consistent which is relatively rare in this kind of style, I think.
My major issue with your pieces is that the more sustained lower sounds tend to sound a bit "out of control", not defined enough and too loud. This could point to a issue in your monitoring setup. I'm suspecting this would lead to issues when playing these tracks in larger venues. Careful with the reverb, at times I feel it's a bit much. Do return the reverb to a "proper" mixer channel for EQ-ing and consider working with more early reflections and less tail or subtle gating or perhaps side-chained compressing. Don't rush the endings of songs, in this style I think it's worth to spend the extra time and love on reaching a feeling of "conclusion".
There you go :¬) _________________ Kassen |
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nobody
Joined: Mar 09, 2008 Posts: 1687 Location: Not here
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Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject:
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My girlfriend. Like Acoustic Interloper's wife, my girlfriend's positive reactions are a good sign. She likes my style of music, but it's not her main thing - she's a metal-head. But she has broad taste and is, I've notice, quite discriminating. And since she's also an artist (another medium), she knows the importance of honesty. If she doesn't like it, she will tell me.
And like Kassen's GF, mine will let me know which sounds she likes when I'm messing around with the synths and something pops out at her. She'll also tell me, either verbally or by covering her ears, when something I'm doing is just very grating on the ears.
I have a friend with a cochlear implant who likes my music. In a way, that's funny to me because my style of music isn't what I'd peg her for liking - but that makes the compliment no less appreciated. |
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Sam_Zen

Joined: Mar 08, 2008 Posts: 251 Location: NL
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Posted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject:
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First, me.
Because I think I've trained myself a bit to be able to switch as a listener between consumer, composer, or producer. _________________ 0.618033988 |
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nobody
Joined: Mar 09, 2008 Posts: 1687 Location: Not here
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Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:21 am Post subject:
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SamZen wrote: | First, me.
Because I think I've trained myself a bit to be able to switch as a listener between consumer, composer, or producer. |
Don't you worry about being too close to your own work to be truly objective?
I know I can be objective on certain aspects, such as the mix, but probably on little else. Sometimes not even on the mix - which is why I've found it's important to give it a rest sometimes and come back with a fresh ear. |
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Sam_Zen

Joined: Mar 08, 2008 Posts: 251 Location: NL
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Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject:
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You're right about the limitations of this approach, but I still think it has to be done first in the row.
And I certainly agree about giving it the time, to experience it again. Playing a piece of last year.
As soon as a work is presented to others, your control is gone, it's up to the listeners to judge the experience.
One could start safely by playing it for close relatives. This has the danger of getting responses like :
-"yeah, quite nice" etc. Things like that have little valid feedback. _________________ 0.618033988 |
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nobody
Joined: Mar 09, 2008 Posts: 1687 Location: Not here
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:50 am Post subject:
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No kidding. I used to date someone who said everything I did was "nice". *sneezing* Bullsh--!  |
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Antimon
Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 4145 Location: Sweden
Audio files: 371
G2 patch files: 100
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:44 am Post subject:
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On the other hand, a reaction like "OMG, this is so great! Hey everybody, listen to what Stefan did!" can be equally polite and useless. One often wants some kind of precise criticism on details. But I find that such comments are often hard to communicate or understand, comments like "that should be warmer" tend to be blurry. I personally allow myself the amateur's luxury of not really showing stuff to anyone before I think it's completely done, and often not even then.
/Stefan _________________ Antimon's Window
@soundcloud @Flattr home - you can't explain music |
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nobody
Joined: Mar 09, 2008 Posts: 1687 Location: Not here
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:55 am Post subject:
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Antimon wrote: | On the other hand, a reaction like "OMG, this is so great! Hey everybody, listen to what Stefan did!" can be equally polite and useless. |
Very true.
Antimon wrote: | I personally allow myself the amateur's luxury of not really showing stuff to anyone before I think it's completely done, and often not even then. |
Yeah, but dude, how will people know about your greatest hits?  |
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Sam_Zen

Joined: Mar 08, 2008 Posts: 251 Location: NL
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Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:16 pm Post subject:
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Antimon wrote: | One often wants some kind of precise criticism on details. |
This has been a problem from the start of electronic generated sound.
Soon it became just another branch of the big music tree, and was judged according to the same properties.
So there was no learning about the specific skills involved, by the listeners. No recognition about the efforts being done.
This perspective of listening just should change somewhat.
(I know, at the end it's just the judgement of the air vibrations experience anyway, but yet)
I don't think I'm the only member on this forum who can recognize, if a piece of techno is made by just pressing
some button on an afternoon, drinking tea, or a piece which has been enhanced in several daily sessions. _________________ 0.618033988 |
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nobody
Joined: Mar 09, 2008 Posts: 1687 Location: Not here
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:03 am Post subject:
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SamZen wrote: | No recognition about the efforts being done. |
Yeah, but I guess most people don't care anyway, even if it's a standard rock set. We'll probably only get recognition on that level amongst ourselves. I often find myself listening to the "experimental" music channels online and going "Hey, that sounds like a Supernova/Ion/whatever". Your average listener just doesn't give a honk as long as it sounds good to him or her.
SamZen wrote: | I don't think I'm the only member on this forum who can recognize, if a piece of techno is made by just pressing
some button on an afternoon, drinking tea, or a piece which has been enhanced in several daily sessions. |
No kidding. I've had people criticize my music and vocals with all kinds of what I think is nonsense. Out of tune, my ass. If people are playing "that junk" on the radio, which sounds like someone is just running a drum machine and beeping out some presets, why can't I get some air time?!?
Ok, 'nuff ranting.  |
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Wayne Higgins

Joined: Aug 16, 2007 Posts: 270 Location: Greenville, FL
Audio files: 1
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:51 am Post subject:
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If Cleo lays there does nothing, it's ok.
If she looks at me and licks the air, it's good.
If she winces and gets up to leave the room, it's time to start over.
ps: (above)Montgomery Village, MD. wow, I used to live in Gaithersburg! |
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nobody
Joined: Mar 09, 2008 Posts: 1687 Location: Not here
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:04 am Post subject:
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Oenyaw wrote: | If Cleo lays there does nothing, it's ok.
If she looks at me and licks the air, it's good.
If she winces and gets up to leave the room, it's time to start over.
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Good Cleo.
My cat used to watch me do vocals. But then GF and I moved in together and the studio is a cat-free room.
Oenyaw wrote: | ps: (above)Montgomery Village, MD. wow, I used to live in Gaithersburg! |
Betcha where you live now is cheaper. This is the most expensive county in the state. |
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Wayne Higgins

Joined: Aug 16, 2007 Posts: 270 Location: Greenville, FL
Audio files: 1
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject:
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MUCH cheaper. Jefferson County, FL is the only county in Florida without a stop light. Many more cows than people. Great place.
I was born in Bethesda. Spent summers with my grandparents in Gaithersburg. Had some great times up there. |
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nobody
Joined: Mar 09, 2008 Posts: 1687 Location: Not here
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Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject:
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An entire county without a stop light.
Man, that's my dream. Heck with the crazy system we live in. |
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PCAhype

Joined: Jun 03, 2008 Posts: 5 Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:39 am Post subject:
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Man I'll grab the first person that's around when I finish an initial mix. Usually that's my roommate. But I've recently changed roommates and this new one listens to some really terrible pop-punk garbage. I usually find that later if my girl or his girl says they really like it or if it makes them cry, then I'm on track. hahaa |
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x_x

Joined: May 05, 2008 Posts: 215 Location: mother earth
Audio files: 4
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Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject:
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1. My imaginary pet
2. Band mates
3. Friends
My imaginary pet always says what I want to hear and gives me self-confidence(no wonder it's on the first place in my list). Band mates are somewhat snobby and understand some of what I try to do, most of the time they're very supportive and give me positive feedback.
I try to show it to friends that don't have much musical knowledge just to hear they're opinions. But it's hard to explain to them what algorithmic composition is.
I've also shown it to programmers and orchestra mates. Strangers with musical knowledge give good feedback too, I've posted things on garageband.com just to see the reviews.
hahaha I remember once there was this gal I liked, and I showed her my myspace and she like freaked out! She doesn't speak to me anymore LOL! What's her problem? What a bipolar lunatic.... Anyways... I love to hear opinions of my music, bad or good. I especially love when people tell me to change something, because sometimes I do change it but I change it the opposite way of what they tell me. |
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blue hell
Site Admin

Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 24423 Location: The Netherlands, Enschede
Audio files: 297
G2 patch files: 320
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Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject:
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gsanchez wrote: | hahaha I remember once there was this gal I liked, and I showed her my myspace and she like freaked out! |
Must have thought there was no money in it ... she was wrong  _________________ Jan
also .. could someone please turn down the thermostat a bit.
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Jyoti

Joined: Mar 07, 2008 Posts: 618 Location: Derby, UK
Audio files: 3
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Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 11:46 am Post subject:
Re: who do you turn to first to play your work? |
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Stanley Pain wrote: | at any stage of it's development... |
If I'm really interested in how commercial a track is (which isn't often nowadays), then I'll DJ it *without* announcing it or even telling anyone who it is.
Then, if people dance in a club or nod their heads enough in a pub, I feel it's more of a true reaction than if they know who it is.
Generally, it's best to play stuff to people without them knowing it's your work!  _________________ My music: here! |
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