a dying breed?

[loss1234]

in the last week i have sent out emails to DON LANCASTER about his psych tone projects I and II, and an email to BERNIE HUTCHINS about his ideas on the Logic synthesizers he had in electronotes.

Do you know what BOTH of them told me?

why use logic chips when you can use a computer?

It seems so many of the old guard are into software now that getting advice out of them on the glory days of "analog/logic/digital" synthesis is impossible.



I really have to thank MOSC for not abandoning the ideas of Lunettas (who by the way i saw listen in Electronotes)

I suppose for so many years computers were a dream that for the older generation it might seem silly NOT to use them but for my generation who is so used to computers doing EVERYTHING and doing it PERFECTLY, there is a beauty in doing things with outdated, junk technology.

i far prefer the sounds i am getting with my lunetta and modular to anything i made on my computer for the last few years as far as sound design. i still use my computer for recording and drum programming, but that is it.


anyway....is this lunetta thing the REBIRTH of old ideas or is it the last of the hangers on? I think it is a rebirth...and is also seen in areas like the popularity of circuit bending, fascination with vco's that drift, and DIY in general. I think many modern people are tired of NOT being involved in a physical way and want to get their hands (and ears) dirty again.


any thoughts on this? should i abandon my search for weird Cmos tone generators and psuedo random circuits and JUST START USING PICS AND SOFTWARE??

thanks

[blue hell]

[loss1234]

rock on rubber bands forever!!

[blue hell]

[Uncle Krunkus]

Viva La Cockroach!!

Why use a PIC to create a musically interesting circuit when you can do exactly the same thing with a tribe of grey haired, individual chips who wouldn't know each other from a bar of soap?!?!?!
You can't get half as much strange crosstalk effects and parasitic capacitance from a PIC. If you starve a PIC of power it just dies!! Bloody boring woose chip I reckon!!

[loss1234]

good
i am glad i am among friends!!!

[Rykhaard]

[mosc]

Well, I can tell you that there are two reasons for DIY. One is to get instruments that you can not afford to buy, or are not available. The second is because you love the process of learning, designing, and building.

For a lot of old timers, reason one was very dominant. So, if you can now do what you did with DIY in software, then you go for software. There is still the process of learning and design.

I for one think that even though software is very powerful, there is still something special in funky circuits (and sophisticated ones too). You can not make the same music on a computer that you make with a Lunetta. Something magical happens when you build a large patch. It takes on a life of it's own. Software doesn't reproduce the glitches and the squawk. It lacks the basic chaotic character.

I would still be building Lunettas today, but my eyesight and concentration are starting to fade. I am very happy to have been able to inspire a younger generation of experimenters that love the process, and the music. Providing a forum for you is really a pleasure. I see your projects and somehow I feel the pride and amusement of them. I love hearing the tracks you posts.

As long as you guys are loving this, it's not a dying breed, or a retro thing either. It's not following the older generation, it's lighting your own way.

I keep saying this, but the great thing about Stanley Lunetta was not the circuits, but his constant spirit of investigating, his great sense of fun, and, above all, his love of sharing. That is what I see going on here at electro-music.com for the most part. Stan didn't invent this attitude, but he really inspired me personally, and apparently you guys too.

I think the breed is not dying - it's growing.

[Rykhaard]

[loss1234]

i am very grateful to you MOSC for getting this lunetta section going. it really has become my favorite place here on EM and has also become my favorite current DIY activity.

right now i am in the process of making a whole bunch of new panels that are as basic as possible (inverters, integrators, clocks, counters, gates, flip-flops, etc) that are going to allow me to take my lunetta even further than i have taken it.

for me the main thing comes down to the LIVE aspect of all of this. the building is great but when you finally get it DONE and hooked up, wow, there is no program out there for me that can touch the feeling of hearing your creation bump and beep its way to life.

i am now getting my 4 yr old son into my modular lunetta setup, so he will hopefully be an even younger generation who are starting to re examine the beauty in physical music makers...not just software music makers.

and i am far from anti-computer. i use them for everything and teach them for recording and production. but this over-saturation of computer tech in my life MUST be one of the major reasons i am fallling so in love with lower tech.

i think it is an interesting point that you bring up about some older DIY'ers made stuff because it was cheaper than buying a pre-made unit.

cost is not at all important in my decision (i am broke either way

but seriously, for me, it is more about building something that fits me, and is an outgrowth of who i am and what i want out of music

thanks for giving me so much inspiration in this forum!!!


all of you

[fluxmonkey]

i think maybe the comments by bernie and don have been misunderstood. they were asked about implementing some specific logic-based circuits, and they suggested that nowadays computers would be a better choice for those specific logic-based applications.

for those specific uses, i'd tend to agree. i don't think they intended some kind of broader "computers are better at everything", nor were they dismissing all things analog. both analog and logic/digital tools have their uses, or their strengths/weaknesses. computers are good at logic, not so good at random quirkiness. if don or bernie were doing those specific designs now, they certainly would be doing them in software.

that's not to say that there's anything wrong with wanting to recreate old instruments as an educational exercise or homage... if you really want a Psychtone, have at it... but if you want to produce the sequences that the Psychtone produces, you'd be much better off implementing the algorhythms in a PIC, and driving some decent oscillators.

the lunetta stuff i think occupies an interesting gap, or overlap... since i see it as basically "misusing" digital components to analog ends. and as much as i've enjoyed building my little collection of tupperware lunettas (pictures soon!), they're just different beasts than my modular, differenter still than my bent keyboards, or brand new epiphone guitar. all have their uses.

b

[loss1234]

I WAS never trying to imply that bernie or donald were saying analog is dead or useless. But i have gotten the same answers from MANY people about how they cant understand my desire to build shift register based circuits with cmos. most people urge me to go the pic or software route.

i have nothing against pics but i must say that i wont be re-newing my subscription to nuts and volts as it just doesnt feel hands on enough to me with all the focus on PICS.

but i know some diyers LOVE IT and i have nothing against them

maybe someday i will get into micro-controllers. but i am only one year into diy as it is and right now, i like the feeling you get by just hooking stuff up and seeing wht it does...just a simple datasheet and a breadboard. no coding knowledge needed.


you can starve things, swap out resistors and caps, and go crazy.

and my search for psuedo random circuits i think fits well in the lunetta framework. lunetta himself seemed to have been very into counters.


but i am not trying to stir up bad blood.

thanks

[RF]

I understand what you are saying, loss. I am enjoying the Lunetta for what it is...for what can be done with a few counters and logic chips. I enjoy the simplicity of it - and I really enjoy not staring at a computer screen I use one far too often at work.

I've seen PIC circuits that look really fun - maybe someday I'll build some - but right now I like what I'm doing. Analog Synth modules, Lunetta circuits and other stuff I can make out of discrete components.

I'm a Ham radio operator -and I enjoy using CW (Morse code), very simple, old technology. I have some nice modern equipment, but I often enjoy using a simple CW transmitter and an old tube receiver. It's just fun.

Keep on, loss - your enthusiasm is contagious.

[loss1234]

RF>..thanks..this ham radio stuff keeps getting my interest...might be a good way to extend my electronics addiction....

anyway..i think we all fiind different areas of DIY that we enjoy and that is part of the fun of it. we can all learn from each others ideas and interests.

i am very excited because i just got a bunch of new electronotes and i found out that some of the ap notes have stuff on DIVIDERS and pseudo random circuits!! woo hoo

so i will be posting something soon i am sure!!

[Rykhaard]

[loss1234]

may i ask why you would give such rare treasures away? they have NOT left my side or my hands since i got them. vols 1-8 are my current favorites.

the later stuff gets a bit math oriented but i might just need to sit down and really give it some time...certainly good stuff to aspire to for sure. amazing, i just sent off an email asking if i can buy the app notes and the perspectives and the MEH

good week

[Rykhaard]

I had my entire set from the early 90's up until last year when I donated them to a chap from Toronto who came down to get them. Most of the knowledge that I read and learn from now, is from here - outside of the few things that I come up with myself.
I learned one hell of a lot from Bernie's collection of stuff from many authors, over the years, RE and _RE_ reading from 41 to the mid 100's over and over and over, over the years.
They went to a good home though. I got them for free, so I thought that some one else that would appreciate them should. And that's where they went.

[loss1234]

glad they went to a good home!

cant stop reading

its just so hard to put them down!!