Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 10:59 pm Post subject:
(paraphrasing my kid): "That's like my ribbon controller, only that one makes music".
Wow, Tim - I'm pretty knocked out here! Bravo indeed!!!! I've been banging on this thing for three months, and haven't even come close to making it do that....
Joined: Apr 17, 2006 Posts: 2810 Location: New York
Audio files: 24
Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 11:45 am Post subject:
I think this is the real beauty of this controller. One can get totally experimental OR totally musical. It's nice to see videos that exploit both aspects. All performances are to be commended.
One more comment about Theff's video is that I really like the fact that he explained his setup in detail. The "GM Voice" drum parts worked well in the composition to. This is a very nice example of DIY electronics making cool music.
To those here in the states, have a wonderful Thanksgiving !!!
Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 10:10 am Post subject:
Or stand by for reduced feature set Appendage, which would allow that kind of stuff (initial, slide and bend). I've never compared, but I wonder how the ribbons themselves match for linearity?
Anyway, the document is done. Here it is in all its fruity goodness....
Edit: Changed line on page 29 from "Bend, Slide and TFS" to "Initial, Slide and TFS"
Appendage_Exposed.pdf
Description:
The Appendage Exposed: Getting In Touch With Your Appendage
Joined: Sep 25, 2005 Posts: 1351 Location: Telford, PA USA
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:03 am Post subject:
Scott,
Thng lines of that document have confirmed for me that you are a very warped and twisted individual indeed. That can mean ony one thing. You are my kind of people. Well furggin done!
Well, back from Turkey Day! Thanks for the nice comments on the video. It's fun to do show-n-tell once in a while , but the credit really goes to Scott Stites and Thomas Henry for their designing, documenting, and sharing.
Quote:
Is there plans or info for that MIDI clock divider / Utility box anywhere? I'd love to get my hands on one of those as well.
I built that box about 7-8 years ago and it is a combination of several circuits from the web.
The divider part is from John Blacet's web sight. http://www.blacet.com/MSdata.html John sells a PIC "MIDI-Sync IC", but I used the Collin circuit instead. If I recall I added an octal buffer to the divider outputs so that the clocks would stop with the MIDI Start/Stop commands.
The MIDI monitor is an older version of the MIDImon from here: http://www.ucapps.de/ I built it when it used a PIC 16F877 and I think it now uses an 18F452. Pretty much all you need is what Thorsten calls "The Core" PCB and an LCD display.
When I get a chance I will crack open the box and confirm what I have mentioned above. Hopefully I documented the changes that I made somewhere. Ohhhh, to have Scott's writing and documenting skills (and initiative)!
Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject:
Thanks DGR and thanks again for the Video, Tim. I forgot to mention that I think that Klee sequence is bitchin', too.
Ian, I don't know for sure, but I think I can see that Tim has an extra strip there that marks points of reference, which is a pretty good idea, actually. I sometimes do the same thing on my metal plate with a highlighter, though I've not really done anything nearly as musical as Tim does in his video.
Speaking of videos, here's one that just goes through what the voltages act like when the ribbon is prodded in different ways.
Joined: May 04, 2007 Posts: 1734 Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject:
Scott Stites wrote:
I don't know for sure, but I think I can see that Tim has an extra strip there that marks points of reference, which is a pretty good idea, actually.
Yes, I noticed that. Still, he is nailing those pitches very accurately! Maybe it would be an idea to be able to somehow mount various strips for different ranges, etc?
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject:
Appendage index scale.
Hey Ian,
Scott is right, I did place a simple piece of white card stock above the ribbon with pencil reference marks.
I started playing it using Initial with some Bend mixed in and then switched to only Slide. Reason for that is, if you use Initial with some Bend mixed in the reference pitch points move. I mean, when you start playing a note and then slide up or down and try to come back to the original pitch, it's in a different spot. This is because of the added Bend voltage that wasn't there when you started.
I haven't figured out a good way around that yet. I guess one thing that might help is to spread some LEDs across the top of the ribbon that would monitor the mix output voltage and light up in 83mV intervals. That would give solid pitch reference points regardless of the scale and mix settings. I don't think you would need every note, but a few in each octave would help.
Joined: Sep 25, 2005 Posts: 1351 Location: Telford, PA USA
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject:
Thank you for the info Tim. Wouldn't it be great if the EM team came up with a project similar to this for those of us who are circuit board challenged...Hint...Hint?
I gotta say Scott,
that is one amazing piece of ingenuity you have conceived and changed the nappies on there!
And an instructional diatribe which even surpasses the instructional diatribunal dissertation of the Klee!
No wonder you've been so quiet lately!
Great work.
When you sent me the copy of the schematics and PCB artwork I thought, "It's just a bloody voltage divider for Christ's sake! What's all this other shit for?!?!"
But now,..... I have seen the error of my ways. My eyes have been opened ( ) to the subtle beauty and deep seated smartness of the Scott Stites Ribbon Controller. _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:33 pm Post subject:
Well, it's just a pot with some extra junk added.
Yeah, Ian, I think some way to mark positions is the way to go. An LED at 0.083V spacing might be a nice guide, but it doesn't take far to go from 0.083V to get off pitch, but it still might be a spiffy system.
I think a standard set of positional markers works out pretty well - like on a guitar so you know which fret is which at a glance. Like I mentioned, I'd marked my metal plate with a highlighter some time back, and I tried playing pitched music just using those for reference, and it actually worked out pretty well. Setting a wide initial voltage with a low-medium bend voltage makes it pretty easy to slide up and down to pitches by ear or by marker. Then you can remove pressure and go to a known value pretty easy using a mark as a reference if you want to start a new note. You still have a wide range, but the wide range doesn't make pitch bends "tricky" if you can picture what I mean.
The mixed output voltages are continuously variable, but having played the thing a while, I find it easy to set a range. I think if someone wanted to (and Tim has mentioned this to me privately) fixed ranges could be set up on a rotary switch. The fixed voltages would be a good source if someone wanted to do that. I believe the optional connector on the PCB provides an extra feed for those voltages.
Ah ha - it's turning into a guitar I can see myself with a guitar like object around my neck sporting the ribbon controller. Perhaps I might give my old Bo Diddley special a new lease of life!!
Ah ha - it's turning into a guitar I can see myself with a guitar like object around my neck sporting the ribbon controller. Perhaps I might give my old Bo Diddley special a new lease of life!!
Well it could just as easily condition the output of a string against fretted resistor chain as it does a softpot. I s'pose it just depends on whether you want a fret to equal a semitone or not. With the TFS concept, you could even get your teeth into it, ala Jimi Jarre style! _________________ What makes a space ours, is what we put there, and what we do there.
Wouldn't it be great if the EM team came up with a project similar to this for those of us who are circuit board challenged...Hint...Hint?
Putting a EM PCB together to give you all of those functions would not be hard, but you would need to get permission from Thorsten and Colin if you used their PIC solutions.
Scott,
The more I think about the LED markers for the Appendage, I'm not sure it would really help, if it monitors the output CV. It would really only show you where you are (and your ears do that ), not the next note you want to hit...Doh!
Maybe some simple printed indexes for for several different scales would make the most sense. A little clear plastic holder like the shelf tags at the store would be easy, if you could find them 500mm long.
Joined: Sep 25, 2005 Posts: 1351 Location: Telford, PA USA
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:46 am Post subject:
THeff wrote:
Hey DGR,
Quote:
Wouldn't it be great if the EM team came up with a project similar to this for those of us who are circuit board challenged...Hint...Hint?
Putting a EM PCB together to give you all of those functions would not be hard, but you would need to get permission from Thorsten and Colin if you used their PIC solutions.
Tim, I know,
I was only trying to goad the collective geniuses into maybe developing their own EM brand of that box from scratch. I just think that having something like that would be way too cool.
Joined: Dec 23, 2005 Posts: 4127 Location: Mount Hope, KS USA
Audio files: 96
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:11 am Post subject:
Of course, there is the option of quantization as well. Bill and I have discussed this, and is a reason why the optional port has been added to the board - MIDIfication, OSC, Quantization, Voltage Permutation and the bit about using the ribbon in a sort of touch sequencer app are all along those lines.
However, regarding quantization, an existing external quantizer will work just fine, and will work quite well for sliding if you consider the interaction of the Initial and Bend voltages. You would quantize the Initial voltage and mix in the bend voltage. The quantizer would precisely fix the initial note and the bend voltage would slide above and below that point in smooth, unquantized increments. _________________ My Site
Joined: May 04, 2007 Posts: 1734 Location: NM USA
Audio files: 54
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:23 am Post subject:
Scott Stites wrote:
I think a standard set of positional markers works out pretty well - like on a guitar so you know which fret is which at a glance.
Just as an aside, the non-fretted string players use the varying width of the neck as part of their sensory feedback loop. I don't know if something tactile along those lines would be useful. But you may not always want to be looking at your... umm ... you know.
Joined: Apr 17, 2006 Posts: 2810 Location: New York
Audio files: 24
Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject:
Really all this talk about using reference markers along the length of the ribbon to hit notes with some musicality really makes one appreciate the folks who are virtuosos at playing a Theremin by which there are no references. For example Kevin Kissinger. He is amazing to watch and have seen him play live. Theremin players judge the distance from each antenna to play a piece of music. It's a matter of training and practice like anything else and suppose it will be the same with the Ribbon Controller. I have seen some guys playing these ribbon controllers in some videos with incredible accuracy with no visible references at all.
For me personally, In more musical applications, external quantization of say 12 notes, or one full octave, across a 500 mm ribbon will leave less room for error. One could just put "note" references along the length of the ribbon. The ribbon can be transposed an octave at a time with simple offsetting by the standard 1V/Oct. Artificial vibrato (not using your finger and wiggling it back and forth) can be impressed on the quantized voltage I would suppose? A MODULATION wheel, feed by an LFO, could be quantized, along with the ribbon controller, and then used to add or subtract the amount of vibrato you require.
Bill Last edited by State Machine on Sat Nov 29, 2008 1:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
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, but the credit really goes to Scott Stites and Thomas Henry for their designing, documenting, and sharing.
Ohhhh, to have Scott's writing and documenting skills (and initiative)! 
