What is a musician?

[Ponk]

You are talking about what you think is good music or good art. I think that bad art is art too. Maybe this thread should be "What kind of a musician I can personally appreciate?" rather than "What is a musician?".

[gsga]

[egw]

I don't accept the notion that only people who have "paid their dues" are considered to make music. The joys of creativity and self expression should be encouraged in everyone.
If you look at the origins of music, it was not a craft or a product to be sold, but a shared community experience. The loss of this is what bothers me the most about the commercialization of music.
I have no objection to people refining their craft, working hard and producing awesome music. Skill and hard work can be admired and rewarded without excluding others who may have less time or talent, but a sincere desire to express themselves and share the experience.
Everyone has something unique to say, and whether it is "good" or "bad" is a purely subjective personal evaluation.

[mosc]

In the 20th century, there were many people who pioneered revolutionary thinking about music. Shoenburg and his crew were against tertian harmonay and scales and started 12 tone or serial music. I've moved against single keys and rhythms and championed poly tonal and poly rhythic music. Cage was against emotion in music and developed the concept of chance music.

Phil Harmonic disliked the concept of talent itself. This was very revolutionary, but many people resonated with it. When society recognizes talent, it is essentially a discriminator. This tyranical attitude is often started in early education. Teachers identify children that talented; everyone else is not talented. Talented children are the ones who can mimic other talented children.

[Oskar]

[Oskar]

[Oskar]

I don't know, maybe I should just apologise and then and burn my guitars.

[redskull]

I'll go unique, here in my Texas basement (not really in one but still)...

What a musician is NOT:

defined by "talent"
a wise hermit on mount yoda
god
mystical uberperson

What a musician IS:

anyone who makes a tune, be means of humming slapping your boob on a tree to the beat of "Purple Haze", or gargling water while you play a guitar. If you make a sweeping melody or experiment with the mathematical possibilities of "mary had a little lamb" to solve the meaning of life, you are making music.

Qualit of music is an entirely divergent topic of discussion. Music is sound produced by nature, people, and things people build. Therefore, it could be said from a literalist point of view that EVERYTHING is a musician

[mosc]

Well, I just brough up Phil Harmonic becuase his was an interesting and unusual perspective, not because I espouse it myself.

I once did a late night radio program on KPFA in Berkeley. One time I had Phil Harmonic on the show because he was moving back to New York - I forget the details. Most guests came with prerecorded tapes to play on the air and to talk about. When on the air I asked Phil if he had brought any pieces to play on the program, he started rambling on about how pieces fit into the talent oriented establishment of the product/consummer culture. How the concept of talent was tyranical. Since I brought up the subject, I felt a bit uncomfortable for being identified as being a lackie for corporate capitalism. I started regretting I had invited him to be on the show in the frist place and started planning how to get him off the air and return to the more mundane world of playing music.

Then, for some reason, I opened up the phones for callins. What followed was amazing. Some guy called up who said he was in the process of committing suicide and he'd turned on my show for background music. (That made me feel kinda bad for some reason). When he heard Phil talking he realized there were other people who felt the same way about the world. Phil talked to him for about 45 minutes and the guy said he found new meaning in life and wasn't going to kill himself. We had another 4 hours of great talk with Phil and some very spaced out listeners, even for Berkeley.

I learned I needed to try to give more respect to people who seem flakey and off the deep end. There are times we ignore wisdom because we are locked up in our own perceptual patterns.

So the next time you hear music by someone who has no education, talent, or skill - listen very carefully because there may be something very valuable in there.

[elektro80]

Howard! This is a wonderful story! I will buy your book!

[jksuperstar]

Back to a topic touched on earlier, "what is a musician = what is an artist"--I was reading "The Picture of Dorian Grey" by Oscar Wilde, and the Preface to it is probably one of the most succinct and straight I've ever come across. In it's single page, I think the author makes clear many of the arguements in this post.

Please read it here: http://www.dagonbytes.com/thelibrary/dorgray/preface.htm

My favorites:

[redskull]

"Phonecalls In the KEY of Purpose"

edited by "Still A. Live"

[gsga]

[paul e.]

just a small point... jones and cook of the sex pistols are/were excellent, very accomplished musicians..

but i know what you mean by lydon's 'anti-music' approach

[gsga]

[arcticbeard]

music is art - there need not be rules or you can limit yourself by applying rules. It can be whatever u want - end of story.

[arcticbeard]

by the way a musician is someone who creates music

[The Dan]

A musician is someone dedicated to make music..(if someone draws a house on a piece of paper..is he an architect?)
Most people call everyone that joins several harmonic sounds combining them on a melody and rythm, a musician. I believe music is an elevated form of art that can go higher than painting, writing or any other art because it is an universal language that roams the line between time and space (nothing can break time and space because it wouldnt be part of this world)



..but then again, its only a guys opinion...like everyone elses.

..

[paul e.]

[zynthetix]

[play]

[jksuperstar]

[play]

is that a koan?

[Oskar]

[zynthetix]