Advice on headphones

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

Hello friends...

I am on the market for new studio phones. I've been looking at AKG K271 Studios, but due to my location now, I do not have access to any quality phones to test. Most unfortunate, but that's how it is.

From many respected sources, I have been pointed in the direction of the K271's. These will be used primarily for detailed mixing work, as well as the rest of what phones are used for. Let's say you had to mix down a CD using a set of phones, and the quality of the mix were crucial. What would you use? Any opinions? These will be used as my sole means of monitoring until I can compliment them with some Audix PH250's or somesuch. When will I be able to do that? Poseidon knows...

BTW, I am replacing a pair of Sony MDR-V600's, certainly not the highest quality for this purpose. More intended for DJ work and such, not critical studio work. Thanks.

Cyx

[Editor's Note: Moving this topic to How To forum. -- mosc]

seraph · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 4:46 pm Post subject:

Check the AKG K240 Studio (semi-open headphone)
Posted Image, might have been reduced in size. Click Image to view fullscreen.

Check also the Beyer Dynamic D770 PRO (closed headphone)
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I got them both. The AKG is a classic choice. very nice, comfortable and light weighted.
The Beyer Dynamic are excellent when recording a singer who is listening to background tracks and you do not want to hear any leakage of them on the voice track or anytime you need closed headphones.

P.S.
If you talk to Elektro80 watch out because he refers to Beyer Dynamic as Beyer Demonic

elektro80 · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 4:51 pm Post subject:

The beyer demonics are cool.

I use those a lot. Great sound.

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

I was told to watch out for you!

Basicly, due to circumstances, I am relegated to mixing down this CD in headphones (no need to lecture me on the demerits of such a thing Crying or Very sad

) The only thing that I track live is bass guitar, so leakage is not much of an issue. Leakage out, that is, leakage in is, well, clearly an issue. Clarity and flat response is paramount. Essentially I need a pair of phones that would, as best as possible, stand-in for real monitors, with the assumption that I will not be able to use monitors on this project. I figured you guys are a good gang to ask.

Cyx

egw · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 5:05 pm Post subject:

The AKG K240 is a nice headphone, and the one I most often see recommended. If you want closed ear, I like the ATH M40.
No headphones will give you a proper bass response, so if you must mix using them, be sure to do frequent test listens on speakers.

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

I've become quite adept ad mixing in headphones, even though I mixed on monitors for years before doing so. Bass response and excited 8khz+ response were two of the first things I had to relearn in the process, as well as the vastly different results of reverb and so forth.

What would the differences be between the K240's and K271's be?

Cyx

egw · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 6:13 pm Post subject:

I haven't tried the K271, but the K240 is less than half the price.
I wouldn't pay more than $90 for headphones unless I could really hear a difference.

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

That's the worst thing about it. I cant just go somewhere and check them out. I have to rely on opinions to a large extent, which is not cool concerning monitoring tools. But alas...

I have begun a research campaign comparing all of them, and based on what I have read thus far, I'm becoming interested in the K240S phones. Thanks, Seraph. Razz

Cyx

elektro80 · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:10 pm Post subject:

I do most of my work using headphones. I find the 770s very analytical and excellent for understanding the signal. The upmarket AKGs I think adds in something which makes it hard for me to understand what is going on. I might buy several other headphones for various types of use. Deciding on that now. Another issue is understanding where the content in a signal will hit crossover filters in various types of loudspeakers. Some crossover filters will really make a signal that sounds cool on headphones sound weird on loudspeakers.

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

I take that into account when it comes to multiband compression, never really thought to do it, I just did. I suppose I thought "Well, if this is where they cross over for the woofer (80hz/120hz), maybe I should divide bands at about 90 or 100 hz, so I'll know what's going where on the output." Never really thought about how that would affect, or be affected by, monitoring in phones.

But, like I said, I want phones that will most closely approximate monitoring through nearfields, not with regards to stereo field or room sound, but in translation.

Cyx

elektro80 · Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:31 pm Post subject:

Well.. then headphones cannot really deliver. I find my 770 Pros to be able to deliver a soundfield which resembles loadspeakers... and not just sound like pretty nice headphones. I my ears the AKG 240s etc sound like headphones.. the 770s sound like loudspeakers. But.. YMMV
That is probably why you must test these yourselves. Reading reviews and getting advice from us guys will probably not do. Try them yourself.

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

Not sure I will be able to. I am very used to mixing in phones, and have grown accustomed to the discrepancies between phones and loudspeakers. I had intended on getting a set in the $200 range, but what I am finding leads me to wonder if it might not be a bad idea to get both the 240s AND the Demonics, and use them both.

But believe me, as soon as I can A. use and B. afford worthy nearfields, I'll be all up init' Twisted Evil

Cyx

elektro80 · Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:00 am Post subject:

Getting both is probably smart. The demonics can probably be bought for less than 120 USD. I have seen them for 85 UKP at Turnkey.

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

If they are as different in nature as I am understanding, I think that would be best myself. Seraph's recomendations may wind up being pretty much what I get.

Hopefully I will be nearfield-enabled sometime next year, but I cant wait that long to get work done, and right now, I am dead in the surf.

Cyx

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

Well friends, it seems that here in the wasteland, I do not have direct access to the Demonics OR the AKGs. Instead I am left with Sennheiser HD 280 PROs. Same price. Oh well... <sigh> ...because I am not buying any without hearing them first.

Cyx

mosc · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 2:10 pm Post subject:

You don't have to sigh for getting Sennheisers. You can't go wrong with those.

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

It was more a sigh for a lack of options than anything. I wanted to go A/B/C the AKGs, the Beyers, and these. These were all that is available. Just a lack of options. That's all. The 280's are being plugged in as we speak for a burn-in run. They seem nice.

OH, and I didn't even get to try these out, as the floor model was damaged, and I KNEW I would walk out of there with a pair either way.

Cyx

elektro80 · Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 5:04 pm Post subject:

You were not allowed to listen to the damned device in the shop? No testing? You sure this is a music shop and not a sex toy shop?

But.. reckon they sound good anyway... but..no batteries included I imagine..

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

Well, the floor models apparently only worked on the right driver. They had a Mackie 32-8 there that I was going to listen to them through, as that's what I have. I was about to have him open a box and let me check them before the Chrismas crowd got the best of me and I just bought them and got the hell outa Dodge. Like I said, I KNEW I would be walking outa there with a pair, why waste people's time and subject myself to 30 teenagers masterbaing on electric guitars to show off how fast they can play scales and sweeps and Yngwie Malmsteen solos? No need for that.

These are some crisp phones, and they aren't even broken in yet.

Cyx