I'm Gonna Chapman Stick It To Ya's

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

The Chapman Stick...

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I've been a guitarist for about 14 years now, and a bass player off and on for about 5. I currently consider myself a bassist primarily, insofar as musicianship is concerned. I've been intrigued by the Chapman Stick for some time, actually since seeing one souped souped up as the "baliset" in the original Dune film (whatever the version is that is 17 hours long and contains the baliset scene and the extraction of the water of life and all that business), and wouldn't mind having one. I have never touched one, but the price is not that bad for what they seem to be, and, of course, they're still relatively obscure.

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Does anyone here have any experience with these things, either as a performer or a spectator? I've heard them used here and there, such as by Levin and Myung, but there seems to be much more possibility there, untapped and exciting to ponder.

Cyx

mosc · Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 9:25 pm Post subject:

I saw a guy bring one to a gig, but he didn't play it.

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

It looks cumbersome, but one of the factory options is midi. Now, I've played the Peavey Cyberbass, which is a midi'ed bass, and it wasn't that bad with regards to midi tracking, but wasn't great either. You had to be sterile and mechanical with your playing, and you know bass players.

I look at the thing, and think about running it though Gigastudio with a high end string or piano library, or even a pair of Matrix 1000's (I only have 1 at the moment) or something like that and get excited. I'm interested in it as much as a controller as an instrument.

But, try finding one in Oklahoma...

Cyx

egw · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 6:12 am Post subject:

I've seen the stick played and it can be very impressive, but it does take a lot of skill to play. If you're interested in a midi controller, check out the ztar:
http://www.starrlabs.com/

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

Looks like the synthaxe drumatar that Futureman plays.

Actually I'm wanting it as an actually instrument, with midi optional, but some of this stuff is interesting. Gonna peruse for a moment...

Cyx

DES · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 9:51 pm Post subject:

Well, I couldn't stay away from this Mr. Green

- I purchased a used 10 String chapman Stick about 2 1/2 months ago off of Ebay - and I LOVE it! Very Happy

I have been playing bass since the mid 70's as well as some guitar and to a much lesser extent keyboard..the Stick is so very expressive - I feel I should have gotten one when I first read about them in the late 70's!
I currently don't have the midi pickups installed - that is a project that is going to happen sometime in the next few months. I will have to do a little routing of the wood between the pickup and the bridge - but I have the tools and experience to do it, so I am not worried. Contrary to what it looks - it is very comfortable to play. I have really only been able to play a little bit each day and I am doing simple classical type tunes already. The trick is not to be intimidated by it. there are a few web sites that you can go to see what this instrument can do. The first one is Stick Enterprises home page - www.stick.com there are two video clips of Greg Howard showing what it can do...no synth use there but in his own video (available for purchase on the site) he uses a GR-33 I believe a little. There are links to other stick musicians website with audio clips - definitely worth checking out. Another site to check out is www.stickist.com - a lot of good links there as well. There are also sites that are dedicated to two-handed tapping instruments - the Megatar, Warr guitars, Solina (honest - that's the name!) and a few others - they deal more on technique.

All in all I would say there are only a few music camps that you see this instrument in... Jazz (it lends itself to a lot of jazz style improvisation and harmony), Progressive (think King Crimson, etc..) and then the "loopers". They use looping devices and the actual style of music runs from goth to industrial to ambient and you can just keep going...I found it hard to separately list all of it's variations, so I just called it loop music. All in all a lot of good music. If you go to www.stickcenter.com
(Guillermo Cides web site) click on CD's and MP3's - then select "Primitivo" off the same album name - a real cool example of the stick and looping! (actually more delay effects then looping...)

Cyxeris - if you have any questions I'll try and answer them for you - or at least steer you in the right direction!

Dave

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

I want one. Too busy right now to get into it, and can't afford it at the moment. One day.

Cyx

DES · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 10:21 pm Post subject:

I don't think you would regret it - that is if you are into string type instruments. However, if you are planning on ordering a new one - the wood ones are running about 7 months for delivery (gives you time to save up for it though...) The graphite ones I "believe" are only 3 to 4 weeks (much more expensive). That is one reason I purchased mine on ebay...and I was out bid on the first two! They do show up quite regularly and run anywhere from $900 to $2000+ depending one whether you get a 10 string or a 12, with or without midi, etc. One thing though - if you do buy used and are spending $1k or more - make sure it has the fully adjustable bridge. The early ones didn't have that nor an adjustable truss rod. The newer ones do. Mine was a 1997 model and has the fully adjustable bridge and truss rod. I just checked on ebay (search using "chapman stick") and there are a few Sticks there - the maple is a good buy. And there is a Mobius Megatar...

Dave

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

Ick, no truss rod or intonation adjustments.

I'm a string instrument person as a musician, I like contact and direct manipulation of the strings. That's why I scrapped the guitar for the most part and focus on bass now. There's more there for me. The only thing about a stick that intimidates me is the cover charge. And, really, in the scheme of things, they are a bargain. You could buy 3 of them for the price of a single PRS.

Of course, I am an electronic musician primarily, so there lies this divide between my soundsources/midi control, and my preferred controller. I wasn't terribly impressed with the Cyberbass as a midi controller, although is was surprisingly nice as an electric bass. Well, surprising considering how I expected it to feel.

Cyx

DES · Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:15 pm Post subject:

One of the keys to having the Stick be very playable is making sure that the fretboard is a flat as possible - this is where having the adjustable truss rod is important - and it is suprisingly simple to do. You can see the truss rod on the back of the instrument - it's not hidden under the fretboard. The bridge on the older instruments was really nothing more then set screws with slots - you adjust string height - but that was it. the newer adjustable ones allow you to adjust the intonation and height..I suppose with a little ingenuity you could retro fit piezo saddles into the bridge assembly and have individual pickups for external processing or conversion to midi. The Roland GK2-AH Midi pickup that Stick supplies is modified - I believe that the pickups are moved closer together to compensate for the closer string spacing on the instrument...

You are right about the value....a student Selmer Eb Alto sax goes for around $1100. PRS's anywhere from $1800 or so and up. One thing I noticed about the Stick when I first got it was the simplicity of it.. There is no resonating cavity or body like a traditional guitar would have. In fact a lot of the users say that the wood that they are made of doesn't affect the tone nearly as much as on a guitar (primarily because of the high harmonic content of the string striking the steel fret when tapped).

dave

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

Well, there is also vastly less wood involved, meaning far less resonance to affect tone. I used to be all into the Satriani/Batten/Stanley Jordan guitar tapping stuff, when I was a kid. I never got into the bass tapping stuff. I'm more into the Geddy Lee, Victor Wooten, Jaco crowd, hefty meaty but more sophisto stuff. That's partially the allure of the Stick, in addition to the newness and unique nature of it.

Cyx

DES · Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2003 3:48 pm Post subject:

Ouch!

Just read that even the graphite Sticks are taking months to deliver!

Dave

Cyxeris · Joined: Oct 30, 2003 Posts: 1125 Location: Louisville, KY

That's fine, it will be years before I will be in a possition to acquire one.

Cyx

DES

Well, about a month ago I installed a MIDI pickup on my 10 string Stick. the pickup is the Roland GK2A - but the actual pickup assembly itself is different then the standard one that comes with the GK2A. The actual pickups are closer together and the complete assembly is encased in an acrylic resin of some sorts. I routed the Stick and installed the pickup - took longer to find all the tools and get set up then it did to install it.

I am using a Roland GI-20 for the conversion - and it works real well! I have the pickup mounted real close to the strings - much closer then on a standard guitar setup. Stick Enterprises gives you an extra piece of damping material to put under the strings at the second fret to help reduce false triggering. The GI-20 has a setting in it now for tapping style instruments....basically you have a sensitivity setting and a dynamic range setting (which is where the tap instrument setting is at). Once these are setup the systems works pretty well. To be honest though - you do have to be very clean with your technique..it won't compensate for it.

I have it plugged into a Wavestation SR and so far I have been having a lot of fun with it. It works best (for me) on slow attack sounds - strings, pads, etc. though there are some synth lead sounds that work real well. I think the big problem is adapting ones playing style for a) the controller being used and b) the instrument sound you are playing. For example - when I first tried doing piano type sounds it was horrible - very much so. Since then my Stick playing has gotten better and now I can get a pretty acceptable performance using piano sounds. (still room for improvement though)

I ordered another pickup for the bass side of the Stick - it should be here this week. One problem most MIDI pickup systems have with low frequencies is with the conversion time between the actual striking of the string and the sound being generated. This is because of the time needed for the processor (GI-20 in this case) to analyze one full cycle of the input wave form - then change it to midi. Supposedly the Axxon systems by Blue Chip reduce this by concentrating on upper harmonics of the string - not the fundamental...

So what this means is that for string and pad sounds - it should work fine on the bottom end... Percussive sounds probably won't work well on the lower strings. One thing that is not readily apparent is that you can send each string to a different midi channel! Smile

Sooooo....I have the option of disabling the two lowest pickups and just using the upper three on the bass side and all 5 on the melody side..... Very Happy

What I REALLY like about this though is the expression capable with it...wow!

Mr. Fox - Karl told me he is going to be after you get one of these! Very Happy

Dave

mosc · Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:45 pm Post subject:

Sounds like a great instrument you have. Can you post some music?

DES · Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 9:16 pm Post subject:

I have been working on some ideas and I will definitely post something once I feel, well, not embarrassed by it! Embarassed

Funny thing is I really spend a LOT of time just noodling around on it - and then I work on the excersises from the books I have... I can tell that they are helping but boy it's like pulling teeth to get through them (guess I would almost rather be noodling!)

Soon though!

I was reading my earlier post - I have found the Stick being used in a lot more styles then what I first found...classical, pop, rock, metal... you name it people are using it in all kinds of music!