Slow decay of sustained sounds

[bensc]

I'm writing a piece for Bass Clarinet and Double Bass. Both will be playing long sustained sounds. I want to be able to sustain these when they change pitch. So the sounds would decay very gradually over a period of about ten minutes. Is this possible with a standard piece of equipment? For example, would this do it: http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/page/shop/flypage/product_id/6739

There are probably a few ways to do this...I'm looking for the most 'cost-effective' way.

Thanks!

[DrJustice]

Hi Bensc!

I don't think a reverb is the solution. Most reverb units will not give you more than at most a couple of tens of seconds of decay time. Also, reverbs do 'dissolve' the sound as time goes by.

If I understand your requirement, it is pretty specialized. Something could probably be made with PD (Pure Data) to acheive this. To quote from the authors site it is a "...software system for live musical and multimedia performances ...". It is freeware, so it should fit your budget.

PD could be programmed to automatically catch the sound in a buffer each time a new pitch is played, then sustaining (looping) that sample. Perhaps someone has even made a similar patch already?

We have a forum with PD discussion right here here. And here is a Wikipedia article and a PD community portal.

DJ
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[bensc]

Thanks for the help Dj, Much appreciated!

Bensc

[deknow]

as the composer, you have to decide what it should sound like, and how complicated you need the effects to be (which might impact how often the piece is performed).

i would start with a basic delay unit (or software), and try just using a delay with a long decay (you could try an older digitech rack or a pedal). you could probably put something together in pd or max that would be "smarter" about how it did things (like not loop the attack or decay of the note), but you need to first define what it is you want to happen (not what it will sound like). the nord modular g2 would allow you to do this a little easier (at least it would be easier for me), and also will allow you to use a g2 engine (no settings, no buttons, no knobs) for performance (easier to send an engine around with the performances than to load and keep stable pd or max on a laptop that is not dedicated for the purpose, and that others might screw up by clicking on an infected email or surfing porn).

it's a little like building a moustrap....trapping the mouse is easy to define, but pulling the string attached to the cheese that turns on the water faucet, which spills the bucket and starts the toaster.......etc is the level on which you must think. something like:
"when a note is sustained for more than 10 seconds, take a 2 second loop, and mix it in to the output when the pitch changes". if you don't like the results (ie, a click when the loop restarts), then you need to figure out what is wrong with the moustrap....as the mouse is still running free.


deknow

[rbedgar]

#1: if you want to work with an algorithmic program anyway, I'd second PD. But there's a steep learning curve.

#2. One pedal that would work for you is the Boomerang. It has several decay modes, and you could easily mix a sample of several seconds with a long delay mode to give a 10-second long delay. The Boomerang is also excellent for live performance.

I just attended a new music concert in SF featuring a bass clarinet, what a magnificent sound!

-Robert

[DrJustice]

Bensc says he is after 10 minutes (!) of sustain/decay. That's why I thought plain reverbs, delays and loopers doesn't really apply. I don't know the community myself, but I'd not be surprised if there are PD buffs out there just itching to assist in making a patch for this . I suggest posting a request directly in one or more PD fora.

DJ
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[Kassen]

So; if I understand it all correctly we need sounds that sound like acoustical instruments (to some degre....) that change pitch and that decay very, very slowly; far slower then most envelopes can go. And we need it cheap....

What if we were to use a off the shelf sound module, then use very long midi notes, simply ignore the envelope decay and instead modulate either the sustain value or the overall volume using MIDI CC's. We could then use features like legato or pitchbend to do the modulation.

I feel Tassman is the best choice for doing emulations of acoustical elements with "unnatural" twists but at a very small budget a freeware sample player followed by a tactfull combination of both chorus and some reverb (to keep it lively) might get you by?

The largest challenge (and most topical to this section) might be keeping the sound interesting for that period; I'd concentrate on that question.

[Kassen]

Oh, wait, perhaps acoustical instruments are involved?

In that case it becomes much harder. How about some technique like a phase locked loop that tracks the instruments pitch and controlls a delay. At speciffic moments this looped delay set to a feedback rate very close to 100% would sample the instrument, then loop it (and stop tracking), basically making the whole instrument into a cross between Karpluss Strong and a acoustical instrument. Next note would use a new sound buffer. Again tactfull application of chorus would help.

This would be hard but not impossible to code but would need lots of practice. Pedal controlls for the instrumentalists might help?

[rbedgar]

No arguments from me, if someone wants to code this puppy.

But a Boomerang will do this.

-r

[morbius]

I posted this somewhere else (the mind is the second thing to go)... anyway- the Boss DD-20 Mega-Delay gives you up to 23 seconds of delay or sound-on-sound. And, it is in a guitar-pedal format, so it would be easy for the musician to use it, if needed. It also has four presets, panning, tape, analog, smooth, twist... a bunch of modes.

I use mine with my modular, and love it. I may even get an Etherwave, and use it with that.

[ian-s]

[morbius]

[elektro80]

[quote="morbius"]

[morbius]

Well that... and the Trons are a maintenance nightmare.

[elektro80]